Town Vs Country and believing in GI.

[CassOle]

I was reading the posts of one of our delightful ploppers, and they commented something like 'what world do you live in? The more I read, the more I wondered if they had ever spent time lambing (or similar). Or whether they were someone who had always lived in a town/city.

The fashion choices are all ones that fall away to nothing when you are checking your animals are OK, have water and forage during a long, wet, cold winter. You (regardless of your sex) need proper outdoor clothing for the weather.

The 'sex is bimodal' idea is just stupid when you are selecting Rams, having the vet scan pregnant ewes, and working hard when the ewes are lambing.

So, I'm wondering whether where you live (and what you do) has any impact on how beliveable gender identity ideology is to an individual?

NC for this. I think it really depends on the type of rural area tbh. I live in a rural village surrounded by farms but our cllr is a barely out of school Green who fervently believes in GI. Although we have a lot of farms, the village is dominated by middle class families who have moved out of Bristol for the village lifestyle. Many work in the arts/creative industries or are academics. So the old villagers involved with the farms know it's nonsense and say so openly in the pub when they're discussing it if it's in the news eg the sandie peggie case but the rest of the village is of the beeeekiiind/it's just like being gay used to be/most vulnerable ever 🤷🏻‍♀️ however I know there is at least one other secret GC person here like me as I've seen green and purple ribbons

So, a clear divide between the farmers/locals and the incomers. That is interesting.

RE the Greens. So many people that I have spoken to don't even realise that the Greens are pro GI, they still just see them as 'for the environment'.

There’s a difference between sex and gender though, right?

I live on the edge of a conurbation, and shop in the local Co-op. Viewpoints there are strongly held and happily discussed and no, they don't believe in GC or GI. They just say it's obvious and we listen too much to youngsters nonsense. At which point the youngsters say they don't believe in it either, but school and uni insist on it. We were forced to have a town council we didn't want, so a record turnout elected reform with 15 seats and 6 Lib Dems in the posher areas.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would share your definitions for these two things. Some people who identify as trans do claim that they have changed sex. So, sometimes gender is used as a synonym for sex, and sometimes it isn't.

The poster I refer to in the OP, stated that 'sex is bimodal' in the thread "Does the guardian really not see?" They have also made some other claims which you can read, if you like.

definitely - if you're running a dairy herd you need to know which ones are the bulls!

Greens are very long standing around here. Bristol is Green and a number of parish cllrs have been aligned with or have links with the Greens of the old school, you know the ones who cared about the Environment. I think they genuinely just see Green = nice/cares about the countryside but not too left wing (our elections predated the advent of ZP!)

"school and uni insist on it"

This is definitely a huge problem.

I would like some clarification on what people believe if they don't believe GC or GI.

My understanding is that GC means that people are critical of gendered sterotypes and that sex is real, immutable and that it sometimes matters. This may have been an assumption on my part, but I always saw that as a pretty standard, common or garden opinion before 2016.

/Obviously/ trans sheep don't exist, they were genocided by inadequate levels of validation.

Trans activists often say that sex is bimodal, or sometimes that there are 3 sexes, or sometimes 6, or sometimes it's a spectrum. The only number they are certain it isn't is 2.

I’ve been on this board previously to bemoan the fact that my profession - veterinary surgery - is awash with gender ideology.
My erstwhile sensible, pragmatic, grounded profession now has members who think that a woman can have a penis. They’ll chatter on about ‘but sex and gender are different’ and all the other usual claptrap. These are on the whole those in small animal practice.
It’s absolutely blindsided me that otherwise rational, intelligent people can come out with this nonsense. What I’ve seen neatly described as the ‘Great Endarkenment’.
So, yes, I think on the whole those living a lifestyle close to animals/reality/ rural life maybe more resistant to GI, but I wouldn’t count on it.

Considering how many castrations and spayings that small animal vets perform, you'd hope that they were a bit more resistant.

Is this the 'schools and uni' influence as mentioned by Easytoconfuse?

GC means that [1] people are critical of gendered sterotypes and ... [2] sex is real, immutable and ... it sometimes matters

In legal terms, only the second part makes up what can be described as Grainger-compliant 'gender critical' protected belief.

This is annoying, because the protected belief is shared by some people who are not gender critical in sense [1], such as religious conservatives.

TRAs take advantage by suggesting that genuinely gender critical sex realists are just the same as the Taliban, the Nazis, or those American 'surrendered wife' types.

Unfair, because transgenderists are also gender critical in the sense of not accepting current local cultural norms for their sex. Where we differ is in that they seem to think that 'born with testes' is some kind of contingent cultural norm, rather than just a fact of life.

It was interesting recently to read a thread on a veterinary forum from a vet stressing as she’d seen a patient whose owners were presenting as gender/non binary/blue-hairedy and she got in muddle over what pronouns to use for the patient. I think it was a normal client- vet interaction, no issue from the clients - this was all a worry in her own head.

There was then a lot of chat: plenty saying ‘you’re over thinking this’ even from the genderists and ‘What a load of bullshit’ swiftly sat on by mods (who are pro genderwoo). But plenty of people having earnest, genuine conversation about gender and animals. Some gender believers seemed quite OK with a clear distinction - people have gender, animals don’t. Others less so including someone wondering whether higher primates may have gender identity. Notably was the unspoken assumption that GI is real.

An excellent example of how it is that intelligent people can believe stupid things. I’ve seen this explained as in order to essentially rationalise the irrational, an individual needs to be intelligent in the manner we normally understand intelligence. An individual who has what may be described as common sense or wisdom, will not do this and can see GI for the codswallop it is.
Throw into the mix the general maelstrom of uni educated, mostly female, left wing, social justice type influences plus a general feeling of knowing best due to the status afforded by professional position and - voila.

Maybe they view them as gender affirming surgery.

Can you imagine Dian Fossey or Jane Goodall researching 'gender identity in primates'?!

Yeah, some people can do the ketman required to believe these stupid things, others can't.

It’s tempting to draw a near town/country divide between people who believe in GI and those who don’t, but nothing is quite so cut and dried these days. The internet is everywhere, people can fall into cultish beliefs no matter where they live.

I like to think I have the logical ability, critical thinking, and annoying insistance on constantly asking why, to have avoided falling for genderwoo regardless of circumstance. But I can't deny the possibility that spending formative years taking the testicles off one type of sheep and sticking an arm up the other, and having to choose which goats and cattle to milk, may have had some influence.

😂

Although you mean the 4 legged variety because the West is awash with millions of the 2 legged variety.

I live in semi-rural Norfolk, having moved up from London (indeed, from the new Green fiefdom with Zoe G as mayor).
Everyone, and I mean everyone local knows that GI is magical thinking, a bust.
The only ones who are Righter On than Right On are women who've moved from London or Cambridge to work from home, and maintain their modern city attitudes supporting GI.
It's an absolute schism.

Sounds like a bubble to me. My experience is quite different! Some of the most GI people I know are living in the country. They have kids who’ve declared themselves to be trans, so no one can tell them anything otherwise…

Cassole, ‘bimodal’ means ‘two’, so in this case at least, isn’t that poster correct? Or were you referring to gender? (I haven’t read that thread.)

Bimodal means 2 overlapping categories. [Edit] Or more exactly, a range of data that forms a single set but with 2 peaks. Not 2 separate categories.

So human height is bimodal - a continuous distribution from tallest to shortest, with a male peak and a female peak within the range. But sex is binary - 2 separate categories and you're in one or the other.

Maybe, purely anecdotal personal local experience. I don't meet at the school gate, hospital waiting room, exercise class etc.

Thanks for this.