Rescue 10 month old Springer

[Springermadness]

Hello. Name change because the below makes me very identifiable! The below is long. Thank you in advance if you even make your way through it.

We've recently rescued a 10 month old Springer. More background at the end in case relevent but high level he's come to us with zero training and I have very limited history apart from his vaccination book. We got him Saturday evening so very early days. I've adopted two untrained rescues of similar ages before but they are/were dogs that fit firmly into the 'Tim Nice But Dim' category. That means I'm not sure whether things with Mr Springer just need more time or if it's a problem with the way we're training him. As would be expected he seems bright (by my standards - took 1 hour to learn his name) and mad as a box of frogs. More time is absolutely fine, I'm just worried about leaving bad habits uncorrected too long.

I have an assessment booked this week for formal dog training lessons but in the meantime, was hoping for help with a couple of things:

Toilet training I know the theory is take him out lots and lots, and praise a lot/give treats when he does his business outside. However, he's not getting it. I actually think he's holding on to go inside - he frequently wees inside just after a long walk. I know when he gets it, it will be like a light switch for him. But how can I better help him understand?! Or is it just still early days and will take time. I've done this before twice but it's been 8 years. I have a vague memory that I was asking the same thing about the same time!

Play biting He's doing a lot of play biting - ankles, backs of knees, hands. I can see another thread on this where the suggestions are distract with another toy and stand still. Basically don't reward the behaviour. That's aimed at someone with a young puppy though. Are there any alternative approaches I should be using with a 10 month old? Note despite the breed we absolutely can pick him up and move him (see background) but he is very wriggly and that can end up with him biting faces so I have been avoiding. There is no sign of aggression at all - this is play. Sometimes over excitement but sometimes just play.

Background in case useful The rescuer says owner dump at the vets, but for various reasons I suspect a pet shop dump. Unlikely to be puppy farm - they're illegal and this isn't a fashionable breed here. We'll probably never know. We are based in Dubai and a lot of dogs have been dumped recently due to the conflict. In case not obvious - of course I wouldn't have bought a Springer in Dubai - this is a rescue and the people who decided to bring this breed to Dubai (as a young puppy) are not exactly on my 'thoughts and prayers' list.

He's clearly been extremely malnourished - he's very skinny but he's also tiny. We suspect runt of the litter and then even less able to fight for the limited food there was. A 'brother' was rescued at the same time who is also very thin but otherwise normal size for a 10 month old Springer. Our boy is 7kg! Vet has verified age and paws suggest he was meant to be larger but vet says he is unlikely to grow now, just bulk out. It's possible he's crossed with something (and his brother isn't a litter mate) but he looks pure Springer and he's tiny even for a Sprocker. Original vaccination book also says Springer. He's anaemic but otherwise no obvious signs of medical issues - only time will tell and fingers crossed he's just always going to be little but otherwise a happy, insane, Springer!

Photo as reward for reading to the end!

I’m far from an expert but my initial thought is about the weeing in the house after his walk. Where is his water? I am assuming you are in a house or you have a balcony with a pee pad. If his water is inside, would it help to have it outside so the routine would be
-return from walk
-water
-mooch until wee
-inside

And regarding the biting bit, I would start crate training. Take him right back to baby puppy training where everyone says young puppies need to learn how to rest and sleep. Assume he has had no training in social skills ever. However, you have had him less than a week and he has no idea what to do, what you want him to do or how to go about it. And he’s a springer spaniel. This might be one for the long haul.

He looks very easy to fall in love with.

When you said your previous rescues were “Tim nice but dim” I immediately wondered if they were Labs 😂

If Lab or similar, they are easier dogs than springers.

For context, I’ve got a Lab 5 months old and he’s easy now. But he did exhibit some of the behaviours you mention for the first couple of months he lived with us. Though he was only a tiny puppy. But still, he did that thing of not weeing or pooing outside but seeming to almost hold it until he got inside. Looking back it was not deliberate though, it was just random. I went through the stage of doubt that he would ever “get it”. But gradually he did. It’s 2 steps forward 1 step back with house training and sometimes it feels like you’re getting nowhere but the key is repetition.

Play biting - just treat him as if he’s a puppy ( actually he still is one though should have outgrown this stage by now if his background was better). Ignore the undesirable behaviour and reward him when he’s calm. Picking him up is giving him attention which is “reward” in his brain so I would remove yourselves from the situation instead. Walk out of the room, turn your back on him, generally make biting unrewarding. Donate an old shoe or preferably slipper to him and let that become “his” toy that he is allowed and encouraged to chew. My puppy loves my husband’s old slipper and has learnt that is his, the other shoes are ours. Then again spaniels are more prone to coveting other people’s possessions, in my experience.

Can’t believe he’s so tiny! Are you sure he isn’t a cocker spaniel with the colouring of a Springer? He looks a lovely boy - when he’s asleep 😂

Thanks for the advice. I'm not really qualified to judge but I'm being told ear placement means Springer (or Springer mix). Another pic (any excuse). Even if he's a cocker he should be much much bigger. I guess we'll only know if in about 2 years time I'm back reporting that my Springer is unusually calm!

You mentioning labs has made me realise I'm being unfair on DDog1 (feathered saluki). He was brighter than a lab! DDog2 (saluki/husky/who knows what cross - I call her a 'thing') is about lab intelligence but without any particular desire to please people and has hypothyroidism which makes her dimmer if not properly controlled. She's a cat in dog form. About 4 years in we were celebrating as she managed to work out how to open a door. As in push a door that was already ajar with her nose to make more space. (I say all this with love!)

I think you're likely right and it's just time and consistency. On the biting it wasn't really an issue with either of my others (DDog 2 was an obsessive licker of faces though) so I think it's the high energy/crazy breed and he just needs consistent redirection to learn that this isn't fun.

I've also decided DH has been overly stingy in cutting up the dog treats into little bits and that full pieces might be more of an incentive with the toilet training. He's (DDog not DH) definitely consciously doing at least his poos inside - he has a consistent spot!

@TheSandgroper missed your post. He's in a crate at night. I will look more into crate training during the day. Not something I'm that familiar with but sounds like a good option. Might also try moving his water bowl outside. He drinks a lot (or at least makes loud noises of drinking a lot, with the amount spread around the floor I'm not sure how much ends up down his throat!).

Very much in it for the long haul. How anyone could look at that face and not feed him properly and then dump him, I don't understand.

I so hope he's a Springer. I love them. They can be well trained, my dB has had them for years. They have great loyalty and they're so energetic and so much fun ❤️

My DH has been moping after his old Springer for 20 years. I'd never normally be willing to have such a high energy breed out here, but definitely better with us than in a cage at the vets! Timing worked out as well because I'm working from home for at least two more weeks and so have time to settle him, rather than adopting a high energy puppy and then leaving him with our nanny to cope with all day. The plan was it was me, nanny and two teenagers at home all day but schools went back in person this week.

Working on ways to keep him entertained when it's 40 degrees out but we will manage even if we have to send him to daycare. Apparently putting in a swimming pool just for the new puppy is not an option.

Yeah, we kept the late SandyDog’s water bowl outside unless it was stinking hot when we would bring it in for the heatwave.

I did wonder about your situation but if you can get the toileting bedded down, you can make changes to suit the situation then.

Even if he's a cocker he should be much much bigger. I guess we'll only know if in about 2 years time I'm back reporting that my Springer is unusually calm!

Springers are typically easier dogs than cockers with a better off switch so I'm not sure this is the diagnostic you think it is 😂

We rescued a dog at around 9/10 months and he still had a lot of puppy behaviours especially play biting and chewing up stuff in the house. He’s 5 now and he never does either of those things so waiting it out is an option but it does take a long time.

Ours did come toilet trained so no advice on that but the biting would happen when he was over aroused and usually a sign he needs to calm down/ have a nap even if it doesn’t look like it. I’d suggest no more playing if it happens but calm activities.

Ours is very soothed by licking/ chewing so a licky mat or stuffed Kong or a long lasting chew is calming for him. We freeze his Kongs and Lickey mats when it’s hot which also cools him down. He also finds scent games calming (although he is quite bad at them). He likes a snuffle mat/ scatter feeding in the garden or finding hidden treats in the garden (maybe will pee whilst he’s out there)

If there’s a consistent spot he’s using inside I believe the advice is to clean very thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner otherwise they think it’s OK to go there.

Yes keep the treats generous and "high value" (not just kibble) and give them out immediately any poo or wees happens outside even if it's just by chance. The temperatures must make it hard to walk him but walks outside early and late will encourage wees and poos to be done outside then you can show a delighted reaction.

The poor puppy does look more undernourished in your second photo where his head looks too big for his body. So that's another reason you can afford to be generous with the treats and use really tasty ones.

Edited to add - our breeder warned us about the water bowl mayhem. She advised us not to fill the bowl very full because most of it will end up on the floor. Which turned out very much to be the case!

I've got a sprocker and toilet training was painfully slow. I just set my phone to an alarm every 30 minutes and went outside with her - and praised when she did. She was about 9 months before being reliably dry in the house - and we had her from 9 weeks old.... our working cocker was dry day and night by 17 weeks in comparison.

Just coming on to stay thanks for all the responses! I haven't had a chance to go through but will do later.

Whilst it is really sad he's tiny, this is the first time since I was a kid I've had a dog that can curl up on my lap and go to sleep and I'm loving that.

I rescued a 7 month old sprocker. He was awful for mouthing for quite a while. I had to keep distracting him with toys or putting him behind a stair gate if it got too bad. It was usually when he was over stimulated. He did eventually grow out of it. And at least at that age they don't have their razor sharp puppy teeth anymore.

If he's never been toilet trained, you'll have to treat him like a puppy. Take him outside every half hour or so and treat him for going. Keep him on a lead, so he can't get distracted. All dogs are different. My 4 year old was trained in two weeks, but my youngest took two months.

Re the weeing when you come back from a walk - my youngest did that. It took me a while to realise she was so busy on a walk, she forgot to wee. So when we got home, we went straight into the garden and she weed outside.

I'm not sure you can tell the difference between a springer and a working cocker by ear placement. (Show cockers have lower set ears.) 7 kg is small for a springer, but he'll probably fill out quite a bit now he's being properly cared for.
People usually think my cocker is a springer, because she is liver and white. She's 12.5kg. My friend's springer is the same size and looks more like a cocker than mine does. 😂

He's a lovely spaniel anyway. They're the best dogs. ❤️

He might be a mix if he is small they are usually nearly fully grown by 10 months,

Spaniels are sensitive dogs and yours has just arrived so finding his paws you have had lots of advice, I just wanted to add he is in his teen years adolescence melts their brain! They are great dogs but sometimes they can me far too much and they need naps.

A dog behaviourist reminded me recently that when a dog arrives with you it’s like a small child arriving in a country where they don’t speak the language. They have to learn everything from scratch. Your rules may not be any like the rules they did or didn’t live with before. Treats and patience although that can be hard the fifth time they’ve weed in the house today. We have a toileting pen outside and walk them round in circles inside it which often gets ours to go as it mimics their natural habit. Use an enzyme cleaner as well.

I have recently brought home a two year old trained labrador, and have a lot of experience with puppies and rescue dogs, but there is always more to learn and each dog is a bit different. He worked as a gundog and lived in kennels before, but has settled with me very quickly. I considered a rescue springer but turned down a ten month old pup. I had started to re think my choice of breed at that point for various reasons, gorgeous though they are.

He’s had two toilet accidents. Both were my fault. The first happened when I thought he was ready to be out of his crate at night. Wrong! He pooed on the stone floor downstairs. The second was when I overslept and thus delayed taking him out first thing and he started to wee on my curtains. A stern No! And he stopped and finished his wee outside. Both learning points for me. I am also praising lavishly whenever he goes to the loo outside.

Yes to an enzymatic cleaner as the smell will draw him back to the same spot.

Re the biting. I think that needs firm action immediately or it could escalate. I would be saying no, or a-ah very firmly and ignore him till he has calmed down. I wouldn't use any form of stern words for puppy toilet accidents though. Just get him outside every hour, and praise excessively.

My lab isn’t at all dim by the way - while he is not in the same league as my collies used to be, he is very bright and easy to train.

Finally and this isn’t a dig at you op at all, but who in their right mind would take a spaniel puppy to Dubai, where it is hot and arid? They are temperate climate dogs, and need to use their nose to quarter rough ground so they can use their brains and let off steam. However many indoor activities you give him for ( horrible word ) ‘enrichment’it’s no substitute for that sadly. Why can't he go in the pool? He would love that. Are you coming back to the UK permanently anytime soon?

I do understand why you took him on though. Very best of luck.

I agree that Dubai is a terrible place to have a dog. Not having a go at you @Springermadness

He can't go in the pool because we don't have one! Apparently spending GBP 50k on a pool to help entertain the puppy is excessive even for Springer loving DH. I'm looking into a large paddling pool type thing but at the moment we're having renovations done so builders are in and out of the garden. There are doggy daycare places with pools and beaches, I just haven't used them for our other dogs for various reasons and need to work them out.

I had written a long rant about dogs and Dubai but decided I don't want to derail the thread. Let's leave it at me having very strong views on any one who buys a dog out here.

Although DDog 1 (a local breed) used to love sunbathing in the middle of summer. A bit like you see Huskies that refuse to come on from the snow, he used to refuse to come in from the sun!

Funnily enough I was talking to a woman in the park yesterday who had lived in Dubai with a rescue dog. She said no one walks their own dogs there - their staff do it! Very different to the UK.

Apols OP. I thought you mentioned you had a pool.

it is SUCH early days, that honestly he is still in shock at the move. We have had a couple of rescues and the first month was just settling. You could visibly see them begin to relax and think this is home.
I think even learning his name in an hour is pretty good going.

One of our rescues was a springer, and the best advice I got was to research gun dog training. They think differently and work differently to other dogs. I honestly can't remember what the things were that we did differently, but they really helped.

Our springer weed when anxious (he was 3 when we got him so not a puppy) and also when relieved (eg when we came home after being out for a while). So I wonder if some of the potty training is just settling still.

We took ours out side very regularly, rewarded wees outside and also as soon as we returned home etc straight to the back door and out, before we even said hello. Outside for wees - one of our dogs needed to be off lead to wee, but our other dog did better when we walked them down the garden on a lead.

In terms of entertaining a high energy breed in a hot country, they love enrichment. We had a pile of old toys, all with holes in. We would put treats inside in the holes and hide them all over the house. That kept him entertained for ages. It was what we did when we went out, so he associated us going out with fun treats round the house, by the time he had finished he just went to sleep. But I have to say, he NEEDED physical excerise every day.

This is an exaggeration but it's true to some extent. Our nanny walks our dogs but then so do my husband and I. We're the ones doing the 5am walls not her. But when I'm at work during the day (and sometimes even when I'm at home) she'll do it.

Ok I've caught up. Thank you everyone. So much helpful advice here.

I have started ignore and distract on the biting and now try to have a tennis ball permanently in my pocket. I think I'm seeing some improvement already in that the 'calm' biting is reducing so we've left with the over excited / no impulse control biting. And that's just consistency and time. He now spends most of his walks with a tennis ball in his mouth as I give it to him to distract from biting his lead.

No idea if the toilet training is getting better but we will see! The good thing is we have entirely tiled floors so whilst not great having to deal with multiple accidents a day, at least it's not carpet. Thanks for the enzyme cleaner suggestions.

The good news for today is that last night I managed to get him interested in a tennis ball, and today he's slowly learning the concept of bringing it back. It's fantastic seeing him running after a ball. Oh and he made two new lab friends, and our other dog agreed to go on a joint walk (she's slowly moving from terrified of him to annoyed by him, which is a good sign from my perspective, he'll break her into actually being friends eventually).

And obviously I broke and bought a pool. DH is despairing (but noticeably didn't make any attempt to stop me!). It's not a big pool (1.2m in diameter) but thought better to start small as you never know he might be the only springer ever who hates water!