Accountancy apprenticeship over University

[Hillbilly]

Looking for some advice. DS has offers from 2 good unis for Business Management/Environment and Business and has unexpectedly been offered an Accountancy apprenticeship locally. The plan would be that he would do all the AAT exams while working. He is very keen, partly to start working and earning, and also to avoid student debt, although he is sad that he would miss out on uni life.

My question is, once he has completed the apprenticeship and if he decides he wants to move to a bigger company, would he be able to without a degree? Or would he end up having to still do a degree later which of course would be a very different experience than if he went to uni this year.
Thanks!

Is it a degree apprenticeship?

What size company is offering the apprenticeship and what size company would he want to move to?

Have they said what type of work he would be exposed to during the apprenticeship? There are lots of roles in an accountancy firm.

I would also look in to longer term opportunities due to AI, and whether the courses offered by a uni would be more "transferrable". I'd say this to anyone consdiering HE or alternatives these days, but please speak to experts in the field if possible.

You need to understand what could happen if he fails exams - big firms for example you could be out.

@tripleginandtonic it’s not a degree apprenticeship. It’s with smallish accountancy firm.

What level AAT are they offering? If they’re offering Level 4 that would I think gain him exemption from proper accountancy exams. Note that accountants don’t need degrees though, they need ACCA or CIMA professional qualifications. Would the local firm be able to sponsor him through those or would he have to move?

@newN4me we are waiting for the final details from them. He’s doesn’t know if or where he may want to move on to afterwards, just looking at the longer term prospects at the moment.

@titchy they would sponsor him through all the AATs

An apprenticeship with AAT will give him far more transferable skills than a 3 year accountancy course. Either way he will still need to do CIMA, ACCA or whatever to become a fully qualified accountant and then still has to gain work experience. AAT have a 70% pass rate as they are vocational. This mixed with actual business experience is invaluable.

accountancy is under threat from AI which is why real world experience (so that he is actually in a better position to provide advice if he chooses to) will give him the edge.

he could still do a degree later on if he feels it necessary but personally I think he’d be mad to pass up an opportunity like that at his age. Degrees are not the free pass to employment they once were. Experience has the edge.

Even if he doesn’t end up liking accountancy in practice, being a CA is worth a lot. I’m a CTA moving to a new role and wasn’t asked about my degree, it doesn’t matter once you’re qualified and have experience.

@titchy waiting to hear what happens after AATs but I suspect if he’s a good fit and doing well he would continue with same firm.

He needs to think about what he wants to do longer term. For example:

/ i found the type of person who is good at tax thinks in a very different way to someone who is good at audit.

/ the AAT work is unlikely to be useful if he wants to do audit in one the Big 4 firms, and it isn’t necessary to do AAT before ACCA or ICAEW exams, if that’s where he wants to end up but might be useful in a smaller firm.

/ the bookkeeping work he’s likely to start with in a small firm is likely to become less relevant as AI improves. What does he see as the next step?

I would suggest taking the apprenticeship as it would give him a good opportunity to see whether this is the career for him. Accountancy prizes the professional qualifications over general degrees. Even accounting graduates are not full accountants and have to do extra exams on joining an accountancy firm. The degree gives some credits towards the end goal but you still have to do some professional exams. The apprenticeship would give him the opportunity to see what the basic accountancy exams look like.
He needs to check that the local company offers a training path to the higher level qualifications though and not just basic book keeping.
I would point out that you don't have to apply to uni at the end of A levels. If he took the job but after say a year decided he wanted to go to uni there would be nothing to stop him applying as long as his A level results are good enough and the work experience would count in his favour, not against him.

He sounds quite academically able? If so, have a look at degree apprenticeships being offered by larger firms (maybe top 20 size). He could look at whether a “gap year” working in a firm would be possible, if he’s missed application deadlines, to give him chance to try different areas

My DS did an accountancy apprenticeship with a small firm. He did his level 2/3 AAT, then changed companies to do level 4 AAT. He then went on and became chartered (ACCA), all under an apprenticeship. He is currently doing a masters, and already a qualified Chartered Accountant, working in industry. Is earning in excess of £80K, with no student debt, in his 20s. He was earning £30K when he was still training.

Mumsnetters seem to think degree apprenticeships are the only route to success. They don’t seem understand that you can take exactly the same route in smaller chunks, and they are much easier to secure but with the same end result.

I am an accountant and my dh also is - he recruits apprentices for a large ish firm.

my questions are:

1. does this “small ish” accounting business have other people studying apprenticeship too? It will work best if he’s not the only one studying
2. when he completes AAT is the plan to keep him on to do full qualification eg ACA?

I would be extremely positive about the apprenticeship if he thinks he’d like a job in accounting. It’s a pathway to having skills and no student debt and a track record of working in professional life. My dh says that all their apprentices are glad of their choice and by their late 20s earning £40k+ and no debt.

I work in finance. Most people I work with did ACCA whilst working and didn't go to uni for a degree. None did AAT first either.

@newN4meyes he’s academically able with very good predicted A Level grades. We had looked at degree apprenticeships when we visited unis last year but at the time it didn’t interest him. He doesn’t know exactly what he would want after the AATs. This has all come about recently so we are playing catch up in researching the options.

@Cricketashes so is AAT not entirely necessary on the career path?

I think it's better to earn and learn rather than get thousands into debt. If he does AAT, he can do ACCA after, that is a common route into accountancy.

The last firm I worked for, I remember the boy who came for work experience, who then did an apprenticeship, AAT, ACCA, and eventually became a top partner in a local firm.

He needs to ask them about doing ACCA, and if they don't then look for other firms who do, as he approaches the end of his AAT.

@ClassyCuckoogood questions! I don’t think there are currently other apprentices there at the moment but will check. I think the plan is that if he’s a good fit and does well they would support him through further qualifications.

Definitely not necessary. They give you some exemptions later, but it’s not essential.

He really does need to decide what role he wants to do and what size firm he wants to work for, because there are big differences in what seem like similar roles. Starting in a similar role (type and firm size) to where he wants to end up will be easier for him.

Thank you that’s encouraging.

Good advice. I’ll have a chat with him.

No not at all. As I say, none of us have done it. It does give exemptions for ACCA etc but its not necessary.