To think that school should take all kids who want to do Bronze D of E?

[Lessexpected]

Our comp takes the whole year group apart from a handful of students who ‘don’t get a place’, like my child. It’s not transparent how they decide and why they don’t take everything. But all of child’s friends are going and they have felt really isolated about it. And their older sibling got to do it. It’s such a milestone in their progress that I feel like he has been failed some way here.

Context: No behavioural issues, gets loads of awards - just got the character award. But school say it’s their mandate. Yet they advertise it on their website as a key extra-curricular activity (they don’t do many trips). No other trips have been offered this year. We have DBS checks and have offered to help. But school said no. I don’t know any other schools who limit numbers.

Is it because you have to do all the other parts of it eg volunteering?

Have you spoken to the school to understand their reasons?

But you have to pay £50 to enter so how does this work?

Does he definitely want to do it?

Oh that's so sad. Our school has limits on trips sometimes but not for this I don't think. I think they can do it through other organisations like Scouts/Guides if they do any of those? Also I think you can still do silver or gold even if you didn't do bronze.

I would be very cross about this. Having said that, a friend’s school have a policy that the child is far more likely to get a place if their parent volunteers to help (so he does). Does your school have similar?

Most of our local schools limit the number of participants because the demand is just too high, but not in the way yours seems to. Ours usually have 30-40 places for the year group of maybe 250 kids. It is a bit demand running DofE with a large cohort, especially if you’re managing the expedition in house and getting enough staff to give up their time to go. However if they are taking the vast majority of the year group and only excluding a small number of kids that doesn’t seem to make any sense. You could look at alternative ways for your child to do their DofE. For example through an open award group or youth groups such as Scouts.

It is often limited by the equipment school have. So if they only have 10 tents they can only take 20 students. Our school take the students who have completed the other sections.

These students also have to be the right gender to be in the tents as girls can't share with boys.

Can your DC do all the other elements and maybe the camp next year or with scouts?

I have kids at 2 different schools.

One takes everyone who wants to do it. This year it's 140 out of a cohort of 180.
The other has to limit numbers because the cohort is 350, they simply don't have the adult volunteers for everyone to do the expedition with them. This year they are taking 150.

If it's just a case of numbers, and your DC still wants to do it, there's no reason why you couldn't ask the school to register them. Your DC works through the other section on their own (as everyone is doing anyway). Then for the expedition part, find them an open expedition to take part in just to get it signed off. Open expedition providers will be open to anyone, it might cost a bit more than school, it might not depending on how the school work it. Or they could do the whole thing through an open award centre.
Search for DofE Open Award centres, lots of counties have them so you might not even have to go that far to find one

Alternatively it's very unlikely that everyone who does bronze goes on to do silver so even if your DC didn't do bronze, they will probably be able to do silver through school as the numbers are smaller They just have to do slightly longer in one of the sections and possibly extra expedition training if they haven't done bronze.

This all sounds a bit vague so I would want to know and understand how places have been allocated and decided.

Did you dc return the form and money by deadlines for example?

At our school they limit numbers as they cannot facilitate the expedition elements for absolutely everyone as it requires kit, transport and staff who are then out of school for other dc. Loads of the adults involved are volunteer assessors and checkpoint staff etc.

I don't understand how you could insist schools offer it to numbers they can't then support? But they should have fair and transparent processes for allocation of spaces.

At our schools, the dc have to complete sections by deadlines to be able to progress. A lot of them drop out due to this.

As others have said, it is not hard to actually do it as an independent candidate and there are a huge number of outward bound centres offering the expeditions for open candidates, so if he wants to he can.

It may feel like they’re taking everyone but your child but that is unlikely to be the case. As others have said there is a limit on how many students can be accommodated, particularly on the expeditions which I assume is the but they’re upset about. A calm query next week will help you understand the selection process. I imagine it’s more about being with their friends but as pp mention, there are lots of other routes and the Explorers/Scouting route often works out cheaper than school in my experience- and is an excellent opportunity to make new friends and have adventures!

Most schools don’t have the staff or the stuff to take everyone.

some schools limit it to those who have done the other sections.

Our school limits it simply because of number of adults to child ration and they can't get enough people to do things like the walk for larger numbers.

But they select on the basis of need. ie those with the nice middle class lots of extra curricular, can easily get work experience/volunteering from family friends will be at the bottom of the list.
It's done as a boost for those who need the extra support and motivation - which probably on average makes it harder for the teachers so hats off to them.

Tbf my dc did everything already except for the walk, which they'd have hated, so I can totally see their point. It probably wouldn't have got onto things like UCAS forms because they did enough without it.

Our school outsourced it to an external company to run and everyone who pays can do it. Lots more expensive than doing it through guides or scouts though. It seems very odd he’s been excluded, I’d want to know if there is another reason behind that.

Our school limits it. They have recently doubled the number of places - and can now take about a quarter of the year. The numbers are about equipment and staff.

I think restrictions on numbers are valid. BUT I think uf just a handful are left out, that is pretty shocking.

Do DoE outside school. Cadets, scouts, open centres are all possibilities that im aware of.

Our school limits numbers and also outsources it to a specialist company to run. No teachers attend and it’s not school equipment used. So I’ve no idea why they limit fully.

Though part of it is that you have to complete all the other elements to even be considered for the expedition.

It drags on for so long with all of this, that school don’t offer the silver award and skip straight to Gold in year 11.

Our local school is limited places as they source to an external company. Some schools will limit places if the staff are volunteering and not enough volunteers.
Theres a great D of E through girlguiding locally volunteer run, guides pick that in preference to school. My friend’s dd did it via air cadets, also well run by volunteers.
If you’ve asked and school still saying no I’d look for guiding/scouting/cadets run scheme.

Awful. I’d complain.

My school limits the numbers and pulls names out of a hat. But those who still want to do it can do it privately and the school gives the name of a company and usually a parent sorts it out and it happens over the same days as the school trip.

That's a shame. I'd want to know how students are selected. It may simply be names drawn out of the hat.

DD has just done her Bronze. The school didn't limit numbers but they did outsource the expedition part to an external company, although a few teachers were there too. We provided almost all of our equipment (apart from the tangias for cooking) and provided all transport. It cost nearly £200 to do excluding equipment. I'm not sure how that compares but it was reasonably well run.

There were a few kids who dropped out after paying the deposit when they realised how much was involved or their circumstances changed. Perhaps speak to the teachers and see if your child can be a reserve in case anyone drops out.

Doing it through scouts or cadets is also another option.

Ours did it with guides and scouts as schools didn't have a offer.

We simply don't have the resources to offer it to everybody so we score the applications, look at need and apply the criteria as fairly as possible. There are opportunities to do it elsewhere so if students are cadets or scouts or similar, we encourage them to do it through them instead to free up our numbers.

When our eldest did it the limitation was just down to logistics - the teachers who ran it did so on a voluntary basis, they just didn’t have enough suitable people to offer it to everyone and not enough equipment . In his school it was 40kids who got to do it and the school struggled to fulfil that. I can’t remember the criteria for doing it but there were some.
I would ask politely why they didn’t get a chance and if the numbers shift, if they could possibly get a place. Otherwise look at other groups such as scouts in your area who may do it, if they really are interested.
its fun to do but missing out on it has very little real world consequences

Complain to the headmaster and governers / trustees. Many schools discriminate against boys despite boys being the ones who actually benefit most from it.