AIBU not to warn another mum her daughter was not invited?

[OneBrightCrow]

Long story short, my daughter didn't invite a girl she's been friends with since the beginning of year R, to her birthday celebration, and the mum thinks I should've warned her.

now in year 4, my daughter has started to broaden her friendship group and seems to have more settled friendships than the friendship with the girl in question.

Although their friendship has been fairly consistent, I wouldn't say it has always been positive. She can be quite bossy, critical of my daughter (you can't dance, you're doing that wrong etc), and behaves older than her years so often says things about weight, image, boys etc that seems to go over my daughters head a lot of the time, but I worry it won't always.

she's often left my daughter out of things (when three is a crowd) and I've navigated those situations by encouraging my daughter to focus on friends who don't make her feel bad.

this birthday, she opted to ask a group of friends to Go Ape, and didn't pick that girl. We questioned her choice a little (not the people, but just are u sure that's your final choice etc)

now the party has been and gone, it has got back to the girl, and her mum has text me questioning why she wasn't invited and she now has to deal with her daughter in floods of tears and would've appreciated a heads up.

was I unreasonable not to send a text before the occasion to prepare her?

I explained that I thought the girls had grown apart somewhat, so didn't think it was a big deal and with limited awareness of the dynamics of school friendships, didn't feel in a position to dissuade or challenge my daughter's choice. The way I see it, if my daughter had really wanted her there, she would've picked her.

(I can't really explain to the mum that my daughter is sometimes in tears because of hers, and that my daughter feels bad about herself a lot of the time because of what her daughter has said. And this girl claiming to see my daughter as her "BFF" doesn't change how she can make my daughter feel)

I get on with the mum well and have expressed that my daughter still wants to be friends, and I'm sorry I didn't deal with it the way she would've liked.

i have another school mum friend who's daughter and my daughter sometimes clash a bit, but it hasn't stopped us being pals, so I'm hoping we can achieve a similar dynamic.

but was I reasonable?

You are fine. Parent of other girl is a CF.

Well, as she brought it up, this might actually be the time to mention to her that her DD has been saying things lately that upset yours (with one or two VERY brief examples of things she said to make yours feel bad) and you think that "might" be the reason your DD decided to invite someone else this time.
If my child was making hurtful comments on their friends' weight/image/popularity I would hope that someone would tell me, so that I could talk to DC about their behaviour.

I think you had an opportunity to say to the Mum that her daughter has said a few things lately that's upset your daughter, and that's likely the reason behind your daughter's decision.

Unfortunately, I think that boat has sailed, you can't go back now and give her a more in-depth explanation.

Why the parent contacted you, I really don't know. Children can't invite everyone to their birthday parties, and it should be the child's decision. Messaging a parent because their child didn't receive an invite is helicopter parenting. The Mum would have been better to have kept upbeat and to teach her daughter that sometimes she won't be invited to things. Yes, it's disappointing but disappointment is part and parcel of life at times. Mum isn't going to be there to micromanage every aspect of her friendships, she needs to learn to do this.

Tricky. I would have appreciated the heads up if my DD were that one, not least because I'd be concerned if she'd been upsetting someone she saw as a friend. I would have wanted to know how to intervene and support her to be kinder. I think it's important. And I would find it quite tricky to be 'pals' with someone who didn't trust my parenting enough to say something if my DD was upsetting theirs.

Would only consider a ‘heads up’ if I was really close friends with the mum, and even then would think twice.

Age 10 my DC wasn’t invited to a friend’s quite large birthday celebration, and was really upset. They’d been close from age 7 - 9 then up and down. I was and still am friends with the mum but not super close and didn’t raise it with her.

I have tried in the past but when I've raised things she'll say she'll speak to her daughter and then come back to me and say her daughter gave a different account and gives a reason to justify the behaviour - so I kinda gave up trying.

there was another time where my husband was out with the kids and her daughter ran off and when my husband caught up with her he said something like not disappearing out of sight as he's sure her mum wouldn't be happy about it.... and she said "my mum never tells me off so it's fine" - so we got an idea about how parenting goes from that too

At this age friendships seem to change every 2 minutes, bff's one minute, and then a new girl starts and one girl gets dropped. It can be hard seeing them upset but as parents our role is to support our own child to navigate it rather than getting involved - this mum shouldn't have been messaging you.

Although with the caveat that no one was rubbing this girls face in it. My daughter had a similar experience, not being invited to the party of the girl who called my daughter her BFF and was super over the top all over her. And they were all talking about the party every 2 minutes with a catty 'oh, but Grace it's such a shame you aren't coming'. DD wasn't that bothered, she was growing apart from this girl anyway, but I still thought it was quite unkind.

If this mum is your friend, why didn't you have a gentle conversation about it how much her daughter was upsetting yours?

I think you’ve acted ok. Unless you are about to drip feed that you invited everyone else in the class or something!
Assuming just a small group were invited it’s fine.

I think I'll aim for a more detailed convo when I see her. Hard to do it via text when I knew she was already upset, and not knowing how it would land.

also my daughter knew not to talk about the party to anyone not invited but others obv mentioned something, and I explained to her that we couldn't insist they kept it a secret. It's just a tricky situation

I think if you have already raised it then all the more reason to just be honest.

"As I mentioned before, sometimes DD feels hurt by the things X does. I know we have talked about it previously and opinions differed but DD feelings about it haven't changed. X might not mean to hurt DD's with the things she says but they do upset DD."

Edited to add - you did give her a heads up of sort, by telling her her daughter was upsetting yours. She chose to deflect it.

"(I can't really explain to the mum that my daughter is sometimes in tears because of hers, and that my daughter feels bad about herself a lot of the time because of what her daughter has said. And this girl claiming to see my daughter as her "BFF" doesn't change how she can make my daughter feel)"
Actually, you absolutely can explain this to her. She won't like the explanation and may go into denial about it, but that would be her problem and not yours.

"I have tried in the past but when I've raised things she'll say she'll speak to her daughter and then come back to me and say her daughter gave a different account and gives a reason to justify the behaviour - so I kinda gave up trying."
Like I said - denial, her problem not yours.

"I get on with the mum well and have expressed that my daughter still wants to be friends"
It sounds as if it would be in your daughter's best interests for them to drift apart. I hope your desire to remain friends with the mum doesn't override that.

Take your own advice!
encouraging my daughter to focus on friends who don't make her feel bad

Don’t pander to that mom, they sound like main character types.

I have had to do the whole they have drifted text to a really good friend. Ds and his best mate all the way through primary went to different secondaries and despite having phones rarely contacted each other. Roll round to friend's birthday in March the Mum texted me to say it would be a sleep over and Ds told me he didn't want to do it. They had met up twice since starting secondary and they didn't really have anything to talk about.

Our friendship drifted after that even though we were both still picking up our younger children from primary. I really wanted to keep the friendship with the Mum but couldn't force my child to spend time with someone they didn't want to.

I think you should address this now whilst you have the chance. Explain you have brought up issues before between her DD and your DD and you are aware that her DD gives a different account of the situation. However, that doesn't change your DD's perception of how it happened and because of this she is wanting to spend time with people she seems to get on with better.

I wouldn't say you want them still to be friends because why would you want to subject your DD to that behaviour? Definitely foster friendships with the nicer girls. You don't reward bad behaviour by still being their friend, they need to drift.

Sorry, yes I missed that you had already tried to speak to her.

Her reaction to you raising a concern tells you all you need to know.
DD was bullied by 2 'friend' of hers in year 2. I was confident to speak to one mum, she acknowledged my concern, spoke with her daughter and got her to write an apology to mine. The other one is the girl I mentioned above who thought her daughter could do no wrong.

This girl and her mum will not change, I would gently distance yourself. As the saying goes, with friends like these, who needs enemies

The mother is not owed anything and all these birthday dramas are ridiculous

Just tell the truth. Your daughter doesnt like her daughter.
As the saying goes, dont set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm

I definitely won't. When I see her it tends to be when we can be child free, and have actively avoided get togethers when the girls are with us. I just wonder if she will now avoid getting together because of this, which would be silly.

They're in the same class so I'd like them to
be friendly; it's just not a friendship I encourage for play dates, holidays etc anymore because I've learned how she can be

Sounds like you handled it perfectly.
Don't give it any more thought. Hopefully once they are in secondary they won't see each other anymore.

That’s so strange of the mum to even text you that.

I don't think you did anything wrong, and didn't need to tell her in advance, but when she said she was now dealing with her daughter upset, I would absolutely have told her that her daughter regularly upsets yours and given examples. Whether she tries to brush it off that's her issue, but I'd still say it.
There's a girl who has always been mean and dramatic in my daughters circle, and last year my daughter decided on a sleepover with just a couple of friends rather than a party excluding only her (because she doesn't want to be unkind) but this year she's been truly awful and I would have no issue with having a party without her and telling her mother why.

YWNBU. She's making a drama out of nothing. Yes, children can be disappointed by these things and they hurt one another's feelings. Navigating that is part of being a parent. She shouldn't have blamed you. (The fact that she did—combined with how she's not dealt with her own daughter's unkindness toward you DD—would make me wonder if she's worth the trouble, frankly.)

It feels a bit of a lost cause to re-explain that her daughter isn't always a good friend to yours. She's a permissive parent and doesn't want to know that her daughter has negative traits, so she won't easily accept it or act on it. If she brings up the girls' faltering friendship again, I'd just reiterate that the girls are getting to an age where their friendships drift and change. It's a natural part of growing up, etc. Then try to steer the conversation in a different direction. If she doesn't want to be your friend because of this, that's too bad, but so be it!

i think you handled it all really well. If your friendship with the mum drifts so be it. You haven't done anything wrong.

You did nothing wrong. Sensible people wait to be invited to an event rather than assume they are invited and request notification that they’re not.

I would have said sorry your dd is upset, it was a small outing and not everyone can be invited.

It’s ridiculous to expect a ‘heads up’ are you meant to let everyone in the year know they are not invited.