Should I have coached my child for 11+?

[PigeonPairinSomerset]

My child starts secondary in September. She sat the 11+ for a top rated grammar school in the SW and did not gain an eligible score. We were advised by the school at open day not to coach her at all. They insisted their exams are unique and coaching wouldn’t help. They also said that they want children to be able to cope naturally with the workload and not to have had extra help. We found out her standardised score was very close to eligible. We are also now hearing that the vast majority of parents ignore the advice not to coach and some kids have been in tuition for the 11+ for years. I can’t help feeling we have let our child down. The state secondaries where we live are mediocre at best, and we we can’t afford private school. Would you have coached your child? Are you someone that did or didn’t? It’s too late to change the outcome now but I’m interested to hear your opinions!

A quick google will tell you that most kids are tutored for the 11 plus so yes, to give her the best opportunity, you should have, at the very least, used some 11 plus study guides with her to level the playing field so to speak.

We bought dd some practice books the year before which she half heartedly did a couple of tests from, then did a few in the week before the test. We were never going to get her tuition and if I had have had doubts about this I would have been reassured that intensive coaching was not the way to go after seeing the curriculum and the standard of the work on the open evenings. I can see how someone coached to pass the rest could flounder when at the school with such high academic expectations.

Oh and yes, I went through some 11 plus study guides with my lad for about 3 months prior to the exams. They give an indication of whether they are likely to reach the standard. The hard bit for us wasn’t the content of the papers but the speed at which they were expected to do the math questions. So a large part of that, unless they’re seriously outstanding at math, was to have a strategy not to waste time on questions they couldn’t easily answer but to move on and then go back at the end if time allows.

So while I don’t think you can coach a non academic kid to pass, I do think knowing the format of the tests and having had similar practice beforehand helps. There were no published past papers but e study guides are often tailored to particular exams.

My son got a place, he is just finishing year 11, he said all the kids had tutors for the 11 plus (the ones he knows anyway) and many carry on with tutors throughout. The work isn’t exactly harder when there as it’s mostly just GCSEs but the expectations are higher.

I think most kids are tutored which distorts the results . Is there a chance for her to take another test at a later date and join a waiting list or enter at 13+ . I know a few Dc who have been tutored and this has worked out for them . I do also know a DC who although he passed the test for a waiting list slot - he never got a place as not enough Dc left

To be honest, I don't know a single child who's gone to a selective school who hasn't been tutored professionally since I myself was at school 20+ years ago!

It's not about covering the content, which most parents and books can do, it's all the extra coaching a professional tutor does about going through the exams at a good speed and in a fluent way, plus all the practice of mocks. You also need a tutor who prepares them for life at the school once they get in, so ensures they're fully up to speed and will be able to manage once they're at the school.

In your position I would get a tutor now to support them through secondary - most of my friends (and us too) are going with the "state+tutor" model for high school education. We use a tutor company who was recommended on here actually (Tayberry) for our daughter and they're doing SATs prep with her at the moment

The format of the 11+ is completely different to anything they have seen before.

Most children have tutoring for it and even if you don’t tutor, you’d need to get some practice books at least.

If you put an 11+ non verbal reasoning test in front of an adult, most would be scratching their heads having never seen one before, let alone a child.

All schools say not to tutor - they can’t be seen to be pushing parents to do it. But if you want a good score you need some, also to do mock tests so they don’t panic on the day.

I think if they’re going to do it, they need to be coached. The other children will have been. The school will advise you not to as they don’t want children to be coached as it defeats the object of the 11+.

My eldest did the 11+, was ill only the day (but not so ill a dr would sign her as sick, I didn’t expect), did brilliantly in the English but failed the Maths by 1 mark. She was coached a bit but not ridiculously. No getting around that after the event.

She went to a comp, was really happy and got 10 x grade 9s for GCSE, plus a distinction for further Maths. No way was she less able than the kids who passed the 11+ but she did as well as she could ever had done at a grammar.

She decided to stay at her comp for sixth form because if it ain’t broke…

I know one. I wouldn’t necessarily say that child has been happier at the grammar though.

Tutoring the kids to get through the 11plus can distort their ability. I’ve known of more than one kid that passed and then struggled terribly at grammar school. It was what the parents wanted rather than see which school would be the best fit for the child. One boy did so poorly in his GCSEs that the grammar school wouldn’t let him stay on at their sixth form. League tables are very important to them

Your daughter must be very bright to have been so close to passing without any prep- so take heart in that. Sometimes life gives us what we need. No harm in looking into 13 plus but a bright kid with a supportive family will do well anywhere.

Heavy coaching, no. Content familiarisation and exam technique - definitely.

Whilst I agree with the PPs that it may well have been beneficial for your DC to have had some sort of 11+ preparation, there's no point in worrying about it now. The best you can do now is look at the positives of their allocated school and give them whatever extra help or support they may need, including tutoring if necessary, to do well.

In your shoes I would have coached (and did for the equivalent for my kids). It’s asking a lot of a child to not even try a past paper before sitting the test.

It depends on the area as some schools are far less competitive but certainly in London many tutored from Yr 4.

Most Grammar schools have a ‘rolling’ entry procedure for children who either never took the 11+, or who maybe just missed out first time round. It’s not usually 11+ or never. Our local Grammar school allows prospective pupils to take a ‘late-entry’ exam to fill any vacancies up to year 10. You would need to enquire of the school and familiarise your daughter with the format and type of content of the ‘late-entry’ exam and get her some tutoring, if you think the school might be a better fit for her.

We went through the 11+ for one of ours, he was adamant he wanted to try for a Grammar school despite his older sibling thriving in a ‘normal’ secondary school and no Grammar school nearby.
When we visited the school the head said that the children shouldn’t need tutoring to get in, that children who were already working at expected/above expected should be able to complete the tests and score highly enough.
Because there are no Grammar schools nearby (hour bus ride away) competition for places is high, and catchment doesn’t come into it. They literally take the top 1/3 until their places are filled.
Everyone seemed to be tutoring, 1:1 online, in person and many have been since year 4!
In the end we decided on group tutoring session once a week term time only, you could also book mock tests in exam conditions so the children could practice what it would feel like on the day.
Some of the children were coached quite intensively, several times a week 1:1 but I didn’t want ours to get in and then struggle so looked at it more to fill in any gaps in his learning rather then to gain a place.
Quite a few of the children from his school took it, all of them had tutoring or some sort, either from parents and then the mock exams which you could log on and see where they had gone wrong or from
tutors.

I would expect that for children at schools that don’t prep for 11+ they will need some tutoring, either professional or time invested by a parent.

A decent prep will have covered the curriculum well ahead of time and spend a good few months on exam practice. My children’s school do multiple practice papers each week from the last term of year 5 through to exam season. Homework ramps up through that period and is tailored to the areas each child needs to spend more time on. Those who haven’t prepped are bound to be disadvantaged.

I have no idea what state primaries do to help prepare in areas with a lot of grammars.

I worked at a grammar school when training. I spotted the 11+ coached kids immediately. They were the ones who couldn’t keep up with the pace of work and didn’t understand the concepts.
In your child’s case a few books/tests prior may have helped, but it’s done now.

However it’s her attitude to learning at secondary that is more important and your enthusiasm and support for her in the coming years that’ll determine her success.

My son has not been tutored and he has got a place at a grammar school for this September. It is against my principles for the many reasons listed here to have a tutor, however many people do push tutoring from year 4 onwards which I find quite sad.

When the HT of the primary school advised us to enter our DS for 11+ he said that he needed a tutor as there would be work on the exam papers that he had never seen before. Eg maths problems.

I'm in Lincolnshire which has the 11+ system. I went to a grammar school, all my DC did and I've taught in both grammars and secondary schools for 30 odd years. Coaching is not common here and I'm always vaguely surprised to find that it is in London/Kent area. I can't think of anything worse for a child than to be educationally pressured during their primary years, particularly if it is then going to mean that they are struggling to keep up all the way through secondary school because they are out of their depth.

None of ours were coached and I don't know any of their friends who were. I've known all the families of the primary school kids all the way from Reception and as far as I'm aware not one of them had their DC 'tutored' for the test.

It's very much a 'take a couple of practice papers' in the primary school you go to so that you know what form it takes. The primary schools around us are all small village ones, not feeder schools for a high pressured grammar. You used to be able to buy 'verbal' and 'non verbal' booklets from WH Smith to have a go at home if you felt like it. That was the extent of it.

Children should not need extensive tutoring to get in. The more academically able will do well and get the scores they need. Those who find themselves struggling to complete the tests will not thrive in the grammar system. It's unfair to push them to do so. Academic qualifications are not the be all and end all and many people do well without them. I loathe the idea of pushing a child from the age of 9 to do well in school. No wonder our kids MH is shot to pieces.

Did you help him a bit yourself by showing him the type of question to expect or did he do the exam ‘blind’?

I loathe the idea of pushing a child from the age of 9 to do well in school. No wonder our kids MH is shot to pieces.” - @Hatty65

I agree with this and I also loathe the idea of sorting children into categories that can have a major impact on their opportunities for the rest of their lives, based on what they are doing at age 11, and branding some of them as “failures”.

i also think grammar schools suck up resource; they cream off kids whose parents are invested and involved. They are more appealing to teach in, meaning good teachers will usually head there, to the detriment of secondary schools and the kids who go to them.

on the whole, as a system, I think it stinks.

my mum failed her 11 plus. She went on to study at a Russell Group uni and had a successful career, but even now in her 60’s she hasn’t forgotten the kick to her self esteem and confidence from failing that wretched exam.

Yes we did practice papers at home which I think is fair and accessible to all.
It's the tutoring, especially from year 4 I find pushy.

When you say you didn’t get her tutored do you mean you did absolutely nothing and just sent her to take the tests? Or did you get her some practice books to do at home? If you genuinely did nothing it’s no wonder she didn’t pass. The tests are unlike anything they will have seen before and even knowing how to fill in the answer sheet requires some forward planning. I had a friend who thought no tutoring meant doing absolutely nothing to prepare and had the same experience.