To think many adults never learned conflict resolution, they only know avoidance or aggression?

[NoMiddleSkills]

It’s either silent treatment or explosion.
Where’s the calm middle ground?

I guess it’s what we saw as we were growing up. I have tried very hard to handle conflict better but I don’t suppose many people accept their way of handling disagreements might be unhealthy.

I can't speak for other older generation people but that was what I knew growing up. I think things have changed these days , for the better, probably as a result of what us oldies experienced

Yes but then you have to look beyond that and really it's that a lot of people have never been taught to regulate their nervous system. So they go into fight or flight.

It's difficult because we don't know most people's childhoods.

I learnt as a child that speaking up about how I felt brought danger. So silence and distance was best. It's taken me many many years to unlearn it and tbh somtimes I still go back to silence and distance

A few months ago there was a misunderstanding with me and my friend and she got slightly what I would deem aggressive.

I couldn't bring myself to speak to her for weeks after. I couldn't even bare the thought of looking at her. I wanted to have a conversation with her about It, but In my childhood home if you brought somthing like that up, you'd have your reality erased, denied and then you'd be punished on top.

We ended up speaking about it, I apologised about the distance, explained that I was worried that if I brought it up she would deny what she did and then where would it leave us?

Thankfully she acknowledged it, apologised and we moved on. But that was such a big brave step for me to have that conversation with her

It's really difficult I think, childhood wounds have a lot to answer for in many of us x

You’re listening to this mornings Woman’s Hour, aren’t you OP?

My parents are horrendous at handling conflict. Totally incapable of difficult conversations. Very fond of writing letters if I recall. My mother is so avoidant. I try to talk about e.g. her health, but she won’t deal with things and there is nothing I can do.

I learned to discuss emotions and have proper conversations with my friendship group (mixed sex) as we grew into adulthood. Some of us had similarly shit parents while others had amazing ones - we all sort of adopted each other!

Many years (and miles) later I ended up getting together with one of these old friends and we are now married. I would say our communication is good and we talk/argue things out respectfully.

Welcome to Great Britain

1000% agree.
I grew up, for a variety of reasons (scary parent, autism, bullied, etc) with the default setting that I am the one in the wrong. So sorry came easy (too easy) to me, and I would ask lots of clarifying questions and go back over my actions to see where I could have done things differently, as default.
I feared conflict, but this presented itself as me wanting to be able to understand what I did, say sorry, be the one in the wrong, and then the conflict can be over because I can fix it (its in my control)
I never wanted to be causing anyone any hassle, so if someone had a problem with me who I cared about, of course I jumped to fix it!
I was then very very surprised to find out that other people react very badly to being told they have upset their loved ones, and get defensive or just ignore/bat off the problem. This made no sense to me. How could you not be upset that you have upset someone, and not want to work out exactly what the problem is so you can fix it? It was only much later I realised that this is also conflict avoidance, in its own way.
I do think that we should make it less acceptable in society to continue a relationship with someone whose immediate response to conflict is defensiveness and/or stonewalling. First few times, okay, they are still learning, you cannot grow without opportunity to do so. But to continue a relationship with someone who does not have the ability to recognise that when they have hurt their partner and the partner raises it, their immediate reaction is to lash back out or ignore it... surely that person isnt emotionally ready for a long term relationship? Not everyone is perfect or has perfect skills, but surely 'if you have hurt your partner, try to go into it with kindness and resolution in mind' is a bare minimum. Doesnt mean you wont get defensive, or shout, or struggle, but the attitude of 'lets figure this out together' should be a baseline. Why is it we can recognise that a 15 year old doesnt generally have the emotional maturity to be a parent but we cant recognise that people without basic conflict resolution arent ready to be long term partners or parents?
Also, there's probably a gender element at play here, would love to read more on that if anyone knows of any resources.

I really recommend the book The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read (and Your Children Will Be Glad That You Did).

There is a great section in there about how to argue. Some people who believe they are taking a calm, middle ground stance are actually being super passive aggressive or still trying to "win".

What I found fascinating about Perry's approach was it's actually all about feelings. About how you feel and acknowledging the other person's feelings. To an extent the facts don't matter.

I've seen all this in my family recently. Most have fallen out with each other and I've refused to get involved. Thing is they're all point scoring (or trying to) about "facts".

"You did x... then y..."

So what? Unless it was criminal, does it help the situation to tot up in some cosmic abacus on who has done more wrong? And each "wrong" was very much in the eye of the beholder anyway. Each had a spin on it with their own preconceptions and biases. Nobody shouted, nobody did the silent treatment but it wasn't effective and now it's all in this very frosty stale mate.

So my point is, it's not just about being calm, it's about recognising that the only things that matter are feelings. Because, for example, my partner is serially late. I used to get SO ANGRY with him for it before I accepted this was an inevitable part of his character and all getting angry was doing was getting me riled up. So now I expect the behaviour I get and I plan accordingly. The behaviour hasn't changed but my feelings have. So there's no point getting mad about something I'm not. Likewise, if he does do something which frustrates me and I do want to try and change the behaviour, I start with "I feel..." or "I felt..."

So for example, "I felt frustrated that I did all of the holiday organisation last year because it put pressure on me in a way I didn't have headspace for with how busy my business is."

This year, he's booked the holiday, without being asked. First time ever. 👍

Sadly I have to agree. You only have to read the posts on here to see that rather than the suggestions being to talk to their spouse the default response is to ‘get your ducks in a row’. It’s no wonder so many marriages are struggling when couples can’t have a conversation!

Most people don’t learn how to manage disagreement or conflict so they revert to what they’ve seen growing up, or in previous relationships. As you highlight that’s usually avoiding an argument by suppressing what they think (breeding resentment), or the opposite where they attack someone’s character instead of focusing on their behaviour or actions. People become entrenched in a position and it’s difficult to come back from that.
Some people also hear everything as an attack and their flight or fight is triggered by the most minor of things. I’ve learned the hard way that if someone cannot regulate their own emotions then you can’t do it for them. People pleasing to avoid conflict doesn’t work and only makes you unhappy.
Emotional maturity to notice and resolve conflict well takes work and practice and many people don’t want to do this as it’s seen as too difficult. So they keep doing the same thing, with the same results.

In my childhood home if you brought something like that up, you'd have your reality erased, denied and then you'd be punished on top.

Yes and they still do it now.

DH and I are not great at conflict, there was abuse in both of our homes growing up so we were definitely not modelled healthy conflict, but we have become much better over the years.

That’s essentially what a personality disorder is: a total lack of self-regulation and conflict resolution skills, where the response goes straight to fight or flight. It’s a byproduct of the nuclear family structure, which allows abuse to occur away from the prying eyes and corrective influence of the "tribe." Because the unit is so small and isolated, there’s no community oversight to stop it, which is why we’re seeing such a surge in mental health issues today.

I think that's likely true.

I think also that many adults haven't learned than some conflicts can't be resolved, not in the neat TV way where the right answer smooths everything.

I think some of that is that the silent types think that if it's just not talked about, it's resolved. I've worked in places where that's the norm - don't talk about it, treat it all as water under the bridge the next moment no matter what, least said soonest mended. It works, for a time, but inevitably it leads to nasty gossip and conflicts becoming unresolvable.

I've heard a fully grown adult say, "I didn't stab her, so what's her problem?" about someone she had been repeatedly shouting at, mocking and demeaning because the other woman refused to work with her anymore. The office line was that the 'I didn't stab her' woman is "particular", to just record what happens after, but don't talk about it, and it never ends well.

I don't know, my family had plenty of issues and I've a ton of trauma but one thing that did happen wis we eventually talked about every event. It didn't always get us anywhere good but there were apologies and attempts to reach and understanding mainly from my mum

My husband though. Every time we disagreed for years he'd think we were arguing, but I wasn't arguing I was attempting to address things we needed to change, however his mum is the single most passive aggressive human I've met, a big fan of a long email about her heart being broken but unwilling to discuss any conflict.

We had this big talk one night. Eldest was a tough baby and I was shattered and he wasn't adjusting to the chaos well etc etc but it always seemed to culminate in 'we can't keep having these arguments all the time's we're 20 years in now and he can see that our relationship is a safe place to address problems and the kids are bigger and life is easier but it's been a lot of learning to trust each other with our feelings and our reactions and a lot of bravery on both sides I think to speak out about what we each want and need. I've had a lot of therapy over the years and he's had a bit too. But I can now face conflict at work etc with a deep breath and cool head. It's been a learning curve though for everyone

Yes to a massive extent.

I had a total revelation when I chose to undertake some counselling for another reason... but of course these things are always intertwined because it makes us who we are! I remember conversations with my counsellor where I was agog at the simple truths she pointed out to me, proper life changing moments on her sofa, delivered kindly but clearly.

So now I have this strange out of body experience looking back at my family and myself and how they deal with conflict, how I used to be part of that, and what has happened since I became aware of it and did the (not easy) work to change myself. Realising it was no active fault of their own helped a lot, was just what they were taught in their own lives.

I mainly feel quite sad that certain relatives are so bound up in a fairly damaging behaviour but have no awareness or desire to address it (I don't know which). And me consciously stepping out of it has not been well received, even if the reactions from them are subconscious! I feel like a parent having to take a deep breath when dealing with an exhausted toddler, in order to not be sucked back in to the old ways.

I think conflict resolution should be taught in schools and be an exam subject. Perhaps it might prevent some stabbings. It should be on a course that covers anger management and cultivating compassion.

Yes I agree. Thankfully both my husband and I have learnt since childhood conflict resolution as well as regulating our nervous systems too. We model to our children everyday. It's so vital. However people look at us like we have 3 heads and are being over the top 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yes!!

This resonates with me - not the upbringing, but trying to get to grips with those who stonewall when they’ve hurt someone.

Oh, I know I'm conflict avoidant.

But I don't think it's a generational thig - look at the way that a lot of young people respond to challenges to their ideas: we've had several years of #NoDebate on certain topics, and I find it too often a sense in my undergrads that any challenge to their ideas is a challenge to them as people.

It's hard to understand & deal with the emotions in response to being disagreed with. It's a facet of just being human, I think.

I’m AUDHD so conflict resolution doesn’t work for me. If someone angers or hurts me then I don’t see what they could say or do that would resolve it - it’s happened and you can’t rewind time. So better to remove them from your life

Ooh good another educational disadvantage for ND people!

But an advantage for the NT society that surrounds you, which should in theory have the knock on effect of being an advantage for the ND too.

How though? If NT people are brilliant at conflict resolution how does that help us?

Let’s stop all education of anything then just in case anyone gets disadvantaged at any point.

So it wouldn't help if NT people recognised or understood that ND people aren't always being agressive or rude and responded to them appropriately rather than with rising tempers.