Lucy Letby new evidence

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

https://www.thejusticegap.com/new-research-undermining-letbys-convictions-for-insulin-

https://www.healthcare-management.uk/police-arrest-lucy-letby-hospital

New evidence out re this case. Any views? Sorry but think first link won’t work so will reposts.

Well not exactly new evidence but news re this case which is interesting to say the least.

The new insulin paper is significant. The arrest news was last week I think.

Ah ok

I believe the paper is still being peer reviewed and all that's out so far is a letter to the editor but it's definitely significant.

Interesting they made an arrest at same hospital too though. Just shows what goes on behind closed doors.

Imagine the Countess of Chester being your local hospital. It seems to get a constantly bad rep. Last year CQC rated it as requires overall improvement.

The Chase and Shannon letter is significant. Someone over on Reddit said the full paper has been submitted to ‘another prestigious journal’ (but I can’t find it now - the thread nesting confuses me over there…). Whether it will have any impact on the CCRC deliberations remains to be seen. Does the CCRC appoint experts to help them understand technically and medically highly complex information?

The arrest is mystifying. Suspicion of perverting the course of justice suggests that someone is suspected of having lied about or hidden information that would support the gross negligence and corporate manslaughter charge though, so only tangentially relevant to Letby’s appeal.

It doesn't seem likely that anyone has withheld evidence showing her guilt, rather that they have covered up evidence that they didn’t act early enough when it became clear that the unit was (from the pov. of Cheshire Police) potentially harbouring a serial killer.

@EyeLevelStick
Yes, the CCRC can appoint experts.

Good!

As could have the Cheshire Police of course…

Sigh.

They did. Lots of them. Not just Evans. Letby can still be a victim of a miscarriage of justice without people making shit up to ‘prove’ her innocence.

I wonder if the arrests are of staff who failed to investigate Letby when concerns were initially raised. For a corporate manslaughter charge that would make much more sense than this being about incompetent medical care - that charge doesn't imply medical negligence or violence against the person, but managerial failure to act on a problem or deliberate concealment of a problem. To me that suggests someone in a managerial role getting arrested - and the failure of staff to investigate competently & inform police when serious concerns were being raised about someone deliberately harming babies has been a major feature of this case. This doesn't mean Letby is innocent - in means someone else is guilty of allowing her to commit her crimes when she could have been stopped sooner.

I can't see police making arrests because staffing ratios were low or the unit wasn't transferring babies to another centre appropriately - otherwise we'd see far more charges around poor care (for example in the many maternity care scandals in the UK)

Yes, I heard a senior police officer who had previously investigated a case for the CCRC say that he was very surprised that a CPS lawyer hadn't went back to the police and told them they needed to verify things more robustly so the Chesire police absolutely could have, and should have seeing as they also been been advised to by the NCA, but then it seems that the CPS should have also made sure that this was done.

I was being somewhat facetious, but they did not employ a statistician - in fact they chose to ignore Prof Jane Hutton. They did not employ a neonatologist.

They were given a list of disciplines (e.g. pathologists, toxicologists, and neonatal nurses) by the NCA, but ignored the recommendation to appoint any.

I’ve said before on these threads and will do so again, I’m not particularly interested in Letby herself - I’m interested in truth and justice, and a competent, unbiased police service.

I’m pretty sure that’s the basis for the corporate manslaughter charge. There’s a fairly damning trail of paperwork of concerns being raised from June 2015 and nothing being done by management. Including the fact that IIRC were trying to put Letby back onto NICU at the point the police started investigating.

I suspect this surprises very few people who work in the NHS.

The arrest was for perverting the course of justice, so it doesn't have anything to do with substandard care.

The arrest was made under operation duet which is an investigation into corporate manslaughter and gross negligence manslaughter.

I'm fairly sure that like with the Lucy Letby investigation they are pretty much ignoring substandard care as a cause of any deaths.

Were the babies even murdered? This has always been my question.

There is as much evidence that ward was just not up to standard for caring for babies that premature, as there is for her actively causing their deaths.

Yes there is no concrete evidence of murder at all.

If the guilty verdict is quashed then we know they're not going to go out looking for the 'real murderer', instead they will say that there were no murders.

There's no evidence of her actively causing deaths, just theories, but there's a ton of evidence that the ward was not up to the standard for looking after those babies.

Suspicion is that the first retrial (of one charge) was a desperate attempt to get the issue back into court to make it sub judice and stop the 'noise'. The barrage of criticism has increased, so might they be trying any possible avenue to achieve this again? The failed extra charges, the corporate manslaughter operation, the current arrest? Another possibility is they are looking for someone to throw under the bus as the convictions fall apart. Perhaps in order to claim that they were misled rather than incompetent.

I was curious myself about whether there would be reporting restrictions about the Lucy Letby case if someone was to be charged with perverting the course of justice. It would be difficult to conduct a trial accusing someone of perverting the course of justice and allowing serial killer to harm babies could run if there is a serious question mark over whether there was ever a serial killer at all!

Personally I think this is just the police doubling down because they haven't liked the criticism lately and were annoyed that the special branch of the CPS refused to bring more charges against Letby. Convicting someone else on the narrative that there was a serial killer would be a big win for them.

I think LL is almost certainly going to be freed at some point, no case can withstand that many challenges, there will have to be an all new inquiry instead of Thirlwall, and then the same hospital bosses are going to have to be re-investigated for gross negligence manslaughter but from a whole new angle instead 🙈

Sadly for Letby though when she’s released she won’t have time for a baby and a new relationship would be hard for her with others knowing the case. She’ll probably move abroad. Absolutely shocking if she is innocent that her life has been ruined.

This makes me really angry. Hospital at fault so they use (as others have speculated all along) a scapegoat. I still wonder why Letby though? Did she have enemies there in the hospital? She must have seriously pissed off many higher ups. And imagine if you’re parents of the babies who died and its negligence, how do you feel if it is that and not murder? Floodgates open for a lot of compensation then.

The insulin "evidence" was supposed to be the smoking gun, yet hit and miss and improbable doesn't begin to cover it. I would hope that this new information would at least count as reasonable grounds for the CCRC to pull its finger out.

I wondered if the perverting the course of justice arrest might pertain to the recently revealed email about Ravi Jayarams varying recollections around seeing Lucy Letby at an incubator doing nothing....

I don't think she was intentionally used as a scapegoat, just that people got an idea in their head and it grew arms and legs, I reckon at this point though some of them are realising they fucked up, although Gibbs is the only one who has expressed a bit of doubt publicly.

Some of the families are already suing the hospital, but that's obviously going to get a lot messier if LL gets out.

I wonder how much more of a delay there will be due to them having to take the head of investigations off the case.

As they were arrested by Chesire police, I really doubt it's to do with Jayarams email, I think they're definitely doubling down and hoping for another conviction with the serial killer narrative, so I really don't think they're doing anything that may jeopardise LL's conviction.

The counter factual is if she did murder the poor babies and is set free, which would be absolutely devastating for their babies’ parents. Not saying that’s what will happen, just presenting the alternative.

Maybe it’s one we will never know what really happened.