Not liking best friends child

[Drymonsoon]

Regular user posting under a different name.

I’m finding a situation really difficult and I’m just wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and how did you get over it.
My best friend is more like a sister. We have been friends since we were just starting school age and are now both in our 40s. Our families are very close as a result. We see each other regularly in the context of family meet ups, so since adulthood it’s never been that we really go out together or do things together, it is very much like a sibling that you see every week and the family weekend gathering.

Friend has 2 children. I adore child one who I will call A. Well mannered, lovely child who I have all the time in the world for. Child B is 5 years old and has always been more difficult- think huge tantrums when not getting her own way etc. She is very bright and switched on and there are no SEN issues. The problem is, friend and her husband adopt the gentle parenting/no demand with her because of fear of her huge tantrums that disrupt every situation. As a result, they have raised a spoilt child. She is rude, spoilt, ungrateful and dominates every situation. They have admitted they don’t like going out in public with her incase she kicks off. Friend won’t take her anywhere alone due to her behaviour. Poor child A is told off constantly if they deem he is ‘winding her sister up’ or doing something that might set her off. He isn’t, he’s just being a child. I can tell he has started to recognise the injustice in this but he takes it all very well.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to be around Child B. Her behaviour and the blatant poor parenting that is causing it, stick out like a sore thumb.
For example- child B had a piece of a family members birthday cake. She asked her dad for more and he said no. She promptly waltzes into the kitchen, sticks her hand in the cake and tears off a chunk that she now is stuffing into her face. She walks past her Dad smirking, to which he just rolls his eyes and goes on his phone.
Another example- Child A’s birthday and he has a small pile of presents off family. Child B dives in and starts tearing the paper off. When told no, she throws herself on the ground and screams like she’s being murdered. Her parents then tell Child A that B will have to help open his presents. Screaming and tantrum suddenly stop and child B starts tearing open poor Child A’s presents.

They constantly allow her to have her own way and give into her to avoid a ‘scene’, but it’s getting worse. I would never in a million years say anything to my friend or her husband, but I’m increasingly struggling to want to be around them or be at family engagements. I love child B, of course, but right now, I don’t like her very much.

I come away from time with them feeling stressed and annoyed, but I love seeing my friend and the rest of the family.
Has anyone been in this situation? Will the little one likely grow out of this? I actually believe that if they rode out some major tantrums and stopped being so terrified of her reactions, she could be a lovely kid. There are moments that she is gorgeous.

Is it just a case of me staying away until she grows up a bit?

Blimey, that’s a tough one. I’m afraid I’m probably a bit too outspoken but I’d find it hard not to say “ah, B, they’re A’s presents! Let him open them!” I would have to bite my tongue til it bled.

I tried this not long ago. It was a family members birthday and they were still to arrive so all gifts were placed on the dining table. Child B flies in, climbs onto the table and starts rifling through the gift bags and chucking stuff out of them. My gifts were in a gift bag and one was a delicate glass thing that needed to stay upright or the gift would be ruined. Child B grabbed my gift bag and reached her hand in. I went over quickly and said “child B, these are for Aunty Susan and there’s something in here that could be broken very easily. Could you just leave it and wait for Aunty Susan to get here to open it please?” She glared at me, growled (her party piece!), stamped on the floor, started screaming and ran out of the room, slamming the door.
My friend didn’t say anything, just got up and followed her but her husband gave me daggers from across the room, like ‘well done, look what you’ve done now’.
I ended up feeling bad about it and like I’d ruined the day before it had begun.

Unfortunately the husbands answer to everything is to generally pull child B onto his knee and give her a kiss and a cuddle or divert her attention with a bag of crisps.

Awkward situation and I honestly don't know how I'd deal with it.

She sounds like a little shit. How the parents can't see the effect it's having on their son god only knows. It will be clear to him that they are favouring her over his feelings. Going to cause a bundle of trouble in the future, methinks.

God, my tongue would also be bitten through!

I would have to avoid them for a while - they are going to make their lifes so difficult and poor eldest child! Maybe you could invite the well behaved child to do something with you and your family separately.

I think a difficult conversation may be looming - assume others have also noticed.

No child is inherently rude, it’s learned behaviour, or otherwise a possible sign of SEN. If it’s learned behaviour then it’s down to parenting. But…it’s really none of your business is it? Given that it’s not your child. Let them deal with it, and maybe have a bit more empathy and understanding. Not all children will perfectly behaved.

Yeah I'd give them a wide berth for a while

Nephew is like this and it is not ending well for them

@ByHardyRubyEagle

But if it’s Op’s house, her guests and her property, it is very much her business.

You may as well have the conversation now, OP ,because you will have to have it sometime ( unless some miracle occurs).

I would meet up with your friend and her husband at adults only events like going to a movie or the theatre or out to dinner.

If you got the evil eye for politely telling the child not to manhandle a delicate gift (which could have cut her apart from anything else) they are not going to thank you for pointing out perceived parenting failures or their child's unfortunate behaviour.

I’m literally unable to control everything my 3 year old does, he’s autistic and doesn’t understand social cues, but I guess that’s my fault as the parent right ? More empathy and understanding all the way. This is a 5 year old we’re taking about here.

Just avoid them. The husband sounds useless. My son had a friend like this: bright, but constant tantrums, needing his own way, walking all over the parents. We distanced ourselves (I really liked the family otherwise) and just left play dates when tantrums started. They see each other here and there, but my son is not interested in him anymore. It won’t end well for these types of kids.

if you value the friendship, just meet up with your friend alone

I'd give them a wide berth and if she says anything,I'd have to be brutally honest.

@ByHardyRubyEagle Having a child with Autism is hard work but not parenting them and failing to reinforce appropriate behaviour is doing them no favours.
I say that as a parent of 1 DS with ASD and another child with PMLD, the result of which meant I have spent many long hours at social events surrounded by children with a whole spectrum of behaviours. And parents ran themselves ragged to try and distract and control their DCs so that their (and other) children were kept safe and didn't spoil everything for others. ASD or SNs are not an excuse not to parent your child. On the contrary it means you have to parent much more.

I agree, but I’m not convinced the parents in question here are not doing ‘the right thing’ here, given that their other child is ‘well behaved’. And as you should know there are some behaviours that can’t always be controlled or changed, not matter how hard we parent. If I take my son to groups sessions activities I pretty much have to helicopter parent, which I’m sure I get the stares and the looks for, but it prevents other things from happening which would label my child as ‘badly behaved’.

I'm sorry but this sounds like your typical spoilt brat to me! Gentle parenting gone far too much the other way! It sounds like the husband is lazy to me, rather than being a gentle parent! If children aren't shown proper boundaries, they are going to behave like this. And if the parents don't start to address it now and show some consequences to bad behaviour, they'll end up with a spoilt teenager.
I'd probably back off a bit for now and if you're friend questions why, then honestly explain to her the reasons and tell her it upsets you that you have to keep your distance as you love them all. Good luck OP 🌷

I feel your pain.

A friend of mine raised her DD that way; she actually said 'Children hear the word 'no' too often, I'm not going to parent like that'.

Well, her DD (23) is the obnoxious young person you'd imagine; no boundaries, risk-taking behaviours, disruptive, unemployable.

I'd probably back off the friendship a little til either the child grows up a little or they finally start parenting her.

IF the mother decides to raise it with you, THEN you can say that you find it difficult to be around her DD and her uncontrolled behaviour.

These kind of threads always tend to end up with SEN parents assuming neurodiversity, but it can be a big red herring in many cases. My entire career has been in working with neurodiverse children, so I have every empathy and understanding with SEN parents who instantly think that a badly behaved child might be ND, but realistically they often aren't.

I had one of these children and their parents in my extended family. The pattern was almost entirely the same, and with one well behaved child, and another who couldn't see beyond his own needs and rights, with tantrums that resulted in him getting quality time and attention from an indulgent parent.

It was exhausting for us and for the related children of the same age, but there was no hint of neuro-diversity, nor has there been in the decades since. Mercifully he grew up into a really decent bloke (now mid 30s) but his sister (who he now gets on well with) still talks about her memories of how difficult he made life for her as a child, and how unfair it seemed to her that he got all the positive attention, and she had to give way to him to avoid the dramatics.

I wish I had an answer @Drymonsoon . But given that you'r entirely reasonable intervention to stop something being broken, resulted in bad feeling, I don't think there's much you can do.

The husband gave you daggers for stopping the child from breaking a present? Sen or not any half decent parent would stop their child from ruining gifts or the experiences of other children. Please don't let his behaviour stop you from doing it again or asking him to remover her from the situation!

I do feel I must add that this little girl has no SEN needs. She’s in a mainstream school, is very bright and sociable and no concerns have been raised.
Nor do her parents believe there are any issues with her other than her being rather strong willed.

I feel you have been unnecessarily sharp here.
No it isn’t any of my business how they parent their child, that’s not the point of the thread.
The point of the thread is that the child’s behaviour and my friends unwillingness to address it is causing me to want to back away from a very close 40 year friendship and I want advice on how I might deal with this. The child’s behaviour does impact me. She has ruined many occasions that I have been actively involved in. She has torn open presents I have got for other people, ruining the surprise. I shall repeat again that the child does not have SEN.
Her brother has always been a very laid back, gentle and sensitive child who my friend admits was ‘easy’ from the second he popped out the womb. So it may not have been my friends parenting that has created such a lovely little boy, but rather down to his innate character.

I really hate that I dread our time together now. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, as I have overheard other family members mention it. One actually confronted my friend about her daughter’s behaviour and it did not go down well. I don’t want to cause any trouble.

Her parents have caused all of this.

I would stop seeing them for a while.

How do you know there’s no SEN needs.

the dynamic you’ve described with one child being no problem and the other one being an issue is exactly what my make as like for a number of years.

we asked for help so many times for my ‘naughty’ child. Didn’t get any, I was blamed constantly. Poor parenting etc.

age 9, diagnosed autistic. Age 15 PANDAS.

your friend needs support not blaming for her child’s ways.

behaviour is communication. That child is struggling

It’s interesting that the children’s behaviours are so different, temperaments aside.
Some will say it’s indicative of underlying undiagnosed Sen, however my assumption is that the children are different sexes and their first child is a boy, their second is a girl and Dad especially is probably less likely to want to see her upset.
Dealing with a tantrum is stressful, and it sounds likes she has learnt that if she has a meltdown she succeeds in getting what she wants.
I have a very determined small person, and parenting can be exhausting, however I’m of the opinion I will not be dictated to by someone less then half my size 😂

See your friend alone. What alternative is there if they won't parent the child?

No it isn’t any of my business how they parent their child

But you’ve made it your business. You said that their son is probably innately ‘well-behaved’, so it’s possible that their daughter is also innately ‘badly behaved’. You can’t always know if someone else’s child has potential SN or not either. And you’ve mentioned where that child has ‘ruined’ occasions? She’s a child.