Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

[CKDexterHaven]

I've seen some threads on Mumsnet where a woman is concerned about her husband or partner going on an all-male trip to Thailand or Las Vegas or Prague or Amsterdam. As soon as someone raises the issue of prostitution they are shouted down and told they are jumping to conclusions. Is the issue of nice, middle-class husbands using prostitutes something to which women are willingly blind?

There are millions of prostituted women and girls in the world, and, of course, men and boys too. The slow advancements in women's lives in the developed world mean that women in their thousands are trafficked from East to Western Europe, from South to North America, from Africa to Southern Europe and from Asia to Australia and the rest of the world just to meet demand. It stands to reason that there must be a lot more clients than prostitutes. The ratio must be akin to hairdressers and their clients. So where are the men? And who are they?

I've read interviews with exited prostitutes who say most of their clients were 'normal', often married, middle-class men. I've heard prostitutes say the best time to work is not a Friday or Saturday night but first thing on a Monday morning when mid-life crisis guys who hate their jobs treat themselves before going back to work. But in my lifetime I've only ever met two men who've admitted to using prostitutes. One was very drunk and bragged to his friends, the other one was an 'edgy' mature student who thought it wasn't exploitative because the prostitute was older than him and, therefore, somehow in control of the situation. That's it, two men.

When I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s porn was sold in dodgy shops, stripping happened in sleazy men's clubs and prostitution was virtually invisible to anyone who didn't live in a red-light area. Even the most handmaideny of handmaidens I knew felt these things were degrading to men and women. Now that porn is a click away and lap-dancing clubs are in every town centre most women seem to have redefined these things as 'empowering' rather than confront the fact that men they know enjoy dehumanising women who need money. Prostitution is also a lot more visible and, although this has been redefined as an empowering career choice for women, women still seem sensitive to the idea of men they know using prostitutes. Why is this? Is it just the question of tangible cheating or are women not as ok with 'sex work' for women as they say they are?

[FreudiansSlipper]

Yes I get shouted down when I pointed out that the rise in sex workers and tourists going to Prague must be because there is a market for them

Apparently this is only for a few men

Of course many are using these services that is why they are there and the exploitation market business is doing so well. Not all but it's the majority going on menz holidays are taking advantage of the sex industry on offer

[BOFster]

I don't know any women who are "ok with 'sex work'", apart from the odd eccentric on mumsnet. As for the rest of your post, I should think that no woman wants to think of a man they love and respect being shitty enough to buy sex- it's not hard to imagine really, is it?

[AnyFucker]

I am not really understanding your point, CK. If it's "there are a minority of some women who will excuse men anything at all" then yes, I agree. Otherwise, certainly in the circles I move in, the behaviour you describe would be a deal breaker in individual relationships.

[BOFster]

Yes, I'm a bit confused too, I think.

[CKDexterHaven]

I guess my point is for prostitution to work economically there must be a lot of men who use prostitutes, a lot. We must all know men who use prostitutes but they are invisible (as the name of The Invisible Men Project suggests). How do men get to do this so secretly? Is it because we just don't want to look? Does the system allow them to get away with it? (Not many men get caught kerb-crawling or in brothel raids). Do a lot of women put their hands over their ears and go 'la-la-la, I can't hear you' because it's such a difficult thing to confront?

In the past 20 years many women seem to have adjusted their opinion to accommodate porn into their relationships because there are so few men who don't use porn now but women still seem to be in denial about men using prostitutes. It is a deal-breaker so they don't look.

[NickiFury]

I would say that at least half of the men I know and have known have used prostitutes. I agree with the OP that many women are in denial, it's far more prevalent than I would ever have imagined. I have worked in male dominated environments all my life and would say the majority of men in those environments do not let being in a relationship stop them for
either having affairs, ONS or using prostitutes. In fact they actively seek ONS especially. I in no way want to patronise anyone on here but I do shake my head at the lack of awareness. A LOT of men behave differently when away from their wives, partners etc i.e. as single men.

[CKDexterHaven]

Or, to put it even more briefly - we all must know men who use prostitutes, so how is it we don't see them and why is it such a touchy subject to raise?

[AskBasil]

Slightly worrying CK - as you say, porn used to be a dealbreaker but so many men use it now that it isn't anymore.

Wonder how long before abusing prostituted women is no longer a dealbreaker.

[AnyFucker]

Nicki... half the men you know have used prostitutes ? Really ?

I am very far from naive, but this is just not my experience.

[CKDexterHaven]

Only two men I know have admitted to using prostitutes. That is my experience but it can't possibly be the truth. I live in a city. Just looking in the 'Adult' section of the local paper's classified section there are 5 places advertising that are obviously brothels, 3 women who are obviously prostitutes and two transwomen who are obviously prostitutes. There are 2 escort agencies advertising for men and women to come and work for them (I don't get the impression the men will be sleeping with women). These are just the ones that have bothered to advertise in the local paper. There must be much more.

[AskBasil]

I don't know of anyone who has ever visited a prostituted woman.

But it may be because they haven't thought to mention it.

[AnyFucker]

I agree that men are pretty unlikely to admit to using prostitutes. Only the most brazenly misogynistic ones will flaunt it, of course. Those men are easily cut out of one's life, and tbh, citing "but it's a male dominated workplace" is just another appeasement. Sorry, Nicki.

Creeping acceptance of such vile behaviour is of course a huge problem. Which is why we should not tolerate it, should criminalise and marginalize the men that do it and stop making excuses.

[BOFster]

I would have thought that there's a hardcore minority (so to speak) of men who account for most of the custom, but it's possible that the mainstreaming of the sex industry has given some younger men the impression that it's just a laddish thing to do on a stag night, so that may lead to an increase in one-off visits?

I actually think that, rather than Basil's feeling that it is becoming more acceptable, there's been a shift in many younger men towards seeing it as rather pathetic 'having to pay for it'. But it's just my impression, and I don't have any special knowledge of the trends or anything.

[CKDexterHaven]

Even on a feminist board this seems to be a touchy subject to raise. It's quite interesting.

[AskBasil]

I think it was always seen as a bit pathetic having to "pay for it" BOF

But now with the idea that sex work is empowerfulising, men can kid themselves (and women) that they're doing something edgy and cool and helping liberate an empowered woman. Almost doing her a favour, what with empowering her so much.

But that could be me being cynical and no one would tell me as they know I would despise them.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Well, I don't think I'm in denial.

I assume blokes use them. Probably quite 'ordinary' seeming blokes.

I will say, the phrase 'in denial' gets to me a bit. It's not women's job to police what men do. Sure, some women possibly are 'in denial' (which implies they wilfully disbelieve, and implies they're culpable). Others have been deceived by wankerish men. And those women are victims too.

The people to blame here, are men who exploit prostitutes.

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

You won't hear of many men being "caught in brothel raids" because they're not actually doing anything illegal by being in a brothel, any more than the women are.

Surprised your local paper accepts ads for brothels and individual prostitutes, most don't.

[AnyFucker]

CK, what do you mean by "touchy" ? You have used that word twice now, and I don't appreciate why, tbh.

I usually see the word "touchy" used by people who like to press buttons and sit back to watch the outcome, and I view that behaviour negatively. If that is what you are doing, it would be best if you stated that honestly.

[FreudiansSlipper]

I think many men would not admit to using prostitutes

Maybe just a few use them on a regular basis but why would there be so many young women being exploited if the market was not there. I doubt just a few men spend all their time visiting brothels. And when it is so easily on offer and away from home I think a lot of men who would never have thought of using a prostitute will but will they be honest I doubt it

[Viviennemary]

I think a lot of people would be horrified if they knew what their DP's got up to. So I suppose it's just as well they don't. Hardly any men admit to it.

[SevenZarkSeven]

Well.

IME men are much more likely to let on, or to tell about having paid for sex, on the following conditions:

• On holiday (lads / stag type scenario)
  
• Single at the time
  
• Not that often "tried it to see what it was like" type thing
  
  I know quite a lot of blokes who have done this, seemingly more "acceptable" face of it, out of my extended friendship groups. My friendship groups have historically been pretty drunken and so people say stuff that maybe they wouldn't under normal circs.
  
  Anyway. These are all "nice" normal middle class chaps.
  I don't know anyone who has admitted to paying for sex in the UK, or more frequently, or when not single. Apart from maybe one who there were rumours about but who knows.
  
  So I would say that the checklist up there ^ is the start of a more widespread normalisation really.
  
  And who knows what anyone else is doing or thinking, really. The older I get, the less surprised I am.

[Fairenuff]

What do you mean 'we don't see them'? How would I know if my neighbour was regularly visiting prostitutes, or the bus driver, or the man down at the recycling centre?

[PistolWhipped]

I think you'll find that not only are middle class women in denial that their husbands visit prostitutes but feminists too.

[AnyFucker]

...and here it comes

[SevenZarkSeven]

I don't understand what class has to do with it.

The more disposable income you have, the more you have to play with on, erm, dodgier things.

e.g. Prince Harry wasn't he filmed cavorting with drugs and prostitutes that time? Loads of posh politicians getting caught literally with their pants down?

Stories about men and prostitutes cross all wealth and class lines, unsurprisingly. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise surely.

I can understand people not wanting to think it might be their husband, boyfriend, father, whatever, obviously.

Having said that I also don't believe the "all men" will do it given half a chance thing either. Some won't. I wouldn't like to put a number on it, but the idea that all men are dogs and will stick it anywhere given half a chance is not true. Of course you can't tell which are which, but still.