UK driver's licence - why am I "Ms" and DH has no title??

[whereisshe]

I don't understand. Someone mentioned this on another thread and I thought they were joking. I just checked. DH is "DHfirstname DHlastname". No "Mr". I am "Ms myfirstname mylastname". Wtf?

How on earth is my marital status in any way relevant to my ability to drive a car. I really just DON'T GET IT.

Please help me understand. I can't even think of a justification that would have applied whenever this was put in place (in the distant past I assume)...

[MrsFionaCharming]

If you compare the algorithms, you'll also find that women's one have 50 added to the month of birth, so January becomes 51 and November 61.

Though I guess that's to make it less likely for 2 people to have the same number.

The title thing really bothers me though!

[whereisshe]

I can see the sense in differentiating gender, it's a means of identifying someone. But marital status (of women only) makes no sense to me ...

Maybe it's so the police know how to address you formally when they stop you in the car

[CaptChaos]

If it was so that the Police knew how to address you, then surely it could be done away with and women could be addressed as Ms? It's not like Ms is offensive.

Unless you're my mother, in which case it means you're a lesbian. Apparently I am a lesbian, I must tell DH

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

Did you put Ms on the form when you applied for it & he left his blank?

Could be as simple as that.

I can't find an online version of the form to check & certainly can't be bothered going to the Post Office - might it be worth asking DVLA for an explanation OP??

[whereisshe]

Capt very true! People do get upset about Ms but it's baffling to me why. Even if it does mean you're a lesbian how is that offensive? Anyway, side bar...

Hmm. Watching I don't think so. We converted our Australian licences over (which don't have this feature) and I don't recall actually filling in a form... It was a while ago, I'll see if DH remembers.

I thought it was a European standard licence anyway. Does anyone have a non-UK European licence to check?

[KeithTheCat]

my driving licence says Mrs because that's what I ticked on the form. I agree maybe you ticked Ms and your husband left it blank.

[KeithTheCat]

ohh xpost!

[whereisshe]

Right, I have submitted a "mistake on my driving licence" enquiry to the DVLA. When they respond I'll explain they have a mistaken licence name details policy and we'll see where that goes

[whereisshe]

I also looked up the process for converting our licences. We must have filled in D1 form as that's the process but I always do forms for both of us as DH hates them so I would certainly have done it the same for both us re titles.

It's a mystery!

[BeCool]

They used to do this at Wimbledon but think they have changed the last few years.

Men would be written up as "A Murray" or "Andy Murray"

whereas women would have a title - "Miss V Williams"

Like we couldn't tell from the short skirts that they were female competitors.

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

Here you go - someone has already asked DVLA -

Driving Licence Titles

Google is your friend!!

[whereisshe]

Very interesting! Interpretation : tradition is king at the DVLA (not queen!)

It doesn't explain why a man with a title Mr doesn't have that title appear on the licence though...

[LittleBearPad]

Because all men, unless they have a title or are a priest will be Mr. Not the case for women

[whereisshe]

Little if that were a reason then nothing addressed to a man would use the social title...

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

No, but if Plod pulls you over, has a peek at your licence & starts to talk to you it becomes relevant.

You can't really go wrong addressing a man as "Mr", but you can guarantee that whether Plod uses "Ms", "Miss" or "Mrs" it'll be wrong 50% of the time & someone will get arsey.

Or would you prefer them to call you by your christian name - again, likely to tick some people off...

Maybe the default term of address for a female should be "Miss" - would that tick the box?

[whereisshe]

If that's the case why wouldn't they just say that on the FOI response linked upthread? Or put it on the form guidance "if you wish your social title to be used when addressed please fill it in on the form". It also doesn't explain why every other organisation also wishing to use a formal form of address includes "Mr".

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

But in reference to your OP -

"How on earth is my marital status in any way relevant to my ability to drive a car. I really just DON'T GET IT. "

It's nothing to do with your marital status - it's to do with your preferred form of address. Unfortunately there is more than one standard form of address for women. If you don't want to me "Ms" on your licence you can be Mrs, Miss, Dr (If entitled), Mx, Mre (never heard of those) or plain old nothing.

The choice is yours!!!! Have a ball.

You could even set it to be Mr if you wanted....

[whereisshe]

Hmm. I would agree with you if that was what the form said. It doesn't.

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

Not going to argue about the layout of DVLA forms - they'll never be able to win no matter what they do...

What is your preferred form of address in formal, no first name, situations anyway (just out of interest)?

[gamescompendium]

It never fails to amaze me how badly designed these title options forms are. Men should have a choice as well - in my world more people have the title Dr than Mr or Ms. The men say they always feel like wankers insisting on it but the women do use it more because we are more likely to be asked what our title is. When I was a student at Oxford there was an excellent expenses claim form that had a long list of options including Dr, Prof, Rev, Col, Sir, Dame, Lord etc etc.

I've posted about this before but when I was filling in an online form for car insurance the title option form included Dr (woman) and Dr (male) which was a bit of an eye raiser.

[Blueuggboots]

I would think it is the explanation given, that women can be Miss, Mrs or Ms.
I detest being called Ms. I'm a Mrs. I'm also in a same sex relationship. My oh is a Miss and wouldn't take kindly to being called Ms either!!

[Bunbaker]

I recently filled in an online form which included the titles: Lady, Sir, Lord, Earl etc. I wish I could remember what it was for

[dvla123]

I hope I can clear this up, as up until a few weeks ago I worked for the DVLA processing driving licence applications.

This is not a feminist issue.

When you apply for a licence, including the exchange of a non-UK licence, you fill out either a D1 form for normal licences or a D2 form if you drive buses/lorries. There is a section on there that asks you to indicate your title. You can tick boxes for Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms, or 'other' and then you can specify what title you want. You can also leave it blank in which case no title will be used. There is scope to use any title at all (Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Prof, Rev, Lord, Lady, Sir, Dame, Capt, Sgt, etc), and ID is only required titles that are for aristocracy or military).

In your case, I imagine one of the following things happened. Either:

1. You filled out the form in such a way that you indicated yourself to be Ms and did not indicate any title at all for your husband. Then, the form was processed correctly. Or,
   
   
2. You filled out the form indicating titles for both yourself and your husband, and then someone in the DVLA who was processing the form made an error on your husbands application and did not key in his title. Innocent mistake.
   
   I can confirm that there is no default setting or policy that omits the husbands title. I am a man and mine says Mr because I ticked Mr. There is also no default setting or policy for women, if no title is indicated then I would not put it on.
   
   Either way, the DVLA will happily alter the licences if you wish, free of charge. Just send both parts of the licence in with a covering letter explaining what change you want done.
   
   I hope that helps.

[dvla123]

To 'MrsFionaCharming', regarding the digits in the driver number indicating gender.

The 6 digits on the driving number indicate date of birth and gender. The first digit is the decade of birth, the next two are the month of birth and are gender dependent, the next two are the day, and the final digit is the year. So for example, a male born on 9th July 1984 would have the number 807094.

When have the zero in the month substituted with either a 5 (Jan-Sept) or a 6 (Oct-Dec).

The reason for this is so that the DVLA, Courts service, and police can tell if the driver is male or female based on the driver number alone.

Of course, if a woman has the title Ms on her licence and a man has Mr, then they can tell that way too. And if the names on the licences are Claire or Matthew then that's pretty obvious too.

However, some people choose not to have titles on their licences and might have androgynous first names like Sam/Jamie/Tracey/Lee/etc. Or perhaps they have foreign names of which the gender is not clear to british folk. In this case, the driver number still allows identification of gender.