Just got into a fight with a MRA on fb

[ChickenNotQuiteKeeper]

Woman commented on a friend's post about the Tumblr pictures doing the rounds; why I need feminism and the spoof ones. Anyone, one of her (female friends) then went off on one about how feminists want to promote women's rights over men's, I'm just going to post it here because I can't summarise it. I wanted to throw my lap top out of the window.

But feminism is the cause for the current inequalities in schooling, homeless shelters, rape definitions, also men being not considered equal parents (new laws regarding mothers not having to serve sentences in prisons in UK, but not for fathers.) As I said the feminism is now causing inequalities. In other countries other that those in the western or first world, There is massive issues, and feminism in itself needs to be there. I just don't like what it is now doing, and causing more issues that will create further segregation and inequalities. Equal for both in all cases.

And then

^ I have a male friend whom was raped by a woman. He was by law considered not rapes, because he was not penetrated. He had a q-tip put in his urethra, it broke, but this is not rape, its sexual assault.

FEMINISM caused this miscarriage of justice. FEMINISM caused this friend to feel invalidated. There are many more men out there. If this was to happen to a woman, we would all be there, but for me, we turn a blind eye^

Its rape. Rape is forced sexual intercourse, by either party. The definition for rape was CHANGED by a feminist. Women can rape girls and boys. you do not have to have a penis to rape someone.

^ I do not want to argue with you, but just hear me out, I can send you a PM with some information in it, it will direct to links with many studied backing them, read through them with an open mind, and please see from what perspective I am writing from. Please know I don't have the time to argue. I don't mind sending them on to anyone else. If you would also like to send me studies/articles to back your opinion, I have no problem reading them, I would hope for them to add to my knowledge.
I don't stated there is no issue with inequalities in other countries, but in more cases than not they have many other issues not just violence against women. So my opinion on feminism is based on first world/western world, not the third world.^

And then she finished with this gem:

^I am an anti-feminist, pro-equality. And I am not an idiot, far from it.

If you are so educated on feminist theory and how great it is please, come back and argue these points. If I could learn something, I would be happy to say "you are right, I am wrong."

Father’s rights group want shared parenting (equal custody) to be the default if both parents want custody and neither parent is unfit. They feel that men should not be punished for being men, and that women should not be awarded custody to their kids simply for being women. Currently women are awarded primary custody almost all the time, even if the husband was the stay-at-home Dad and the woman was the breadwinner.

Feminists fought against this. Statements that feminist movements used were “fathers are abusive, don’t give them custody.”

(yay for femisim, but we are going to go , nope it's men's fault, the patriachy, because it's easier to blame the past, then go fuck it, it changes here)

Men want protection against false rape allegations. They feel that a man’s life should not be ruined simply on the allegation of a woman who may be a vindictive liar. Currently, a woman can accuse a man of rape for no reason, and the man’s name is splashed in the paper and his life is ruined. So, they fought for laws granting men anonymity until charged with the crime of rape—not convicted, just charged.

“The London Feminist Network is a campaigning organisation uniting London based feminist groups and individuals in activism.”

Men want an end to the justice system favouring women simply because they are women, and giving men harsher sentences simply because they are men.

Feminists fought against this, arguing that no woman should be sent to jail, even women who had murdered multiple people.

Men want equal treatment when victims of domestic violence, and to not be arrested for the crime of “being male” under primary aggressor policies.

Feminists fought against this by trying to suppress evidence showing that half of domestic violence is done by women, by threatening the researchers with bomb threats, death threats, etc. Modern, younger feminists are doing it as well.

And sadly, they were successful in this effort of propaganda. For decades, and continuing today, violent men are (rightfully) convicted and punished by the state, while violent women are left to freely terrorize and harm their partners.

The feminist definition of domestic violence has skewed arrest and prosecution philosophies, resulting primarily in having only male batterers criminally pursued.

Men want female rapists to be arrested, charged, and convicted with rape. In Western countries, women are rarely punished when raping men, due to the biased legal system. In some countries, women cannot be punished when raping men, since rape is defined as a male-perpetrated crime.

Feminists fought against this in India, arguing that “there is a physicality [in] rape” and that it would make things “more complicated for judges.”

Feminists fought against this in Israel, claiming that changing the law would result in men filing false rape claims.

Men don’t want to be thrown in jail because they lost their jobs and temporarily cannot pay child support.

Feminists fought against this, trying to lower the amount to $5000 before a man is guilty of a felony for not paying child support. If a man loses a decent-paying job, he will now be a felon, go to jail, lose his right to vote, AND be unable to find future jobs—if he cannot regain an equal-paying job within a few months.

Men want equal economic support and help from the government. When the recession hit, male-dominated fields like construction lost millions of jobs, while female-fields like education and healthcare gained jobs. So the government proposed an economic stimulus for those fields.

Feminists successfully fought against this, arguing that it was discrimination to support men, and caused the government to give money to women who didn’t deserve it. Hundreds of professional feminists complained against the “sexism” of helping men (who had lost jobs) and not women (who had gained jobs).

A representative of the Michigan National Organization for Women testified in opposition to the Revocation of Paternity Act, which stopped the old law which stated that if a woman was married and cheated on her husband, the resulting child is considered to be legally the husband’s and the biological father had no legal rights to fight for custody or parenting time with his biological child.

As you can see, the claim that feminism fight for men’s rights is a blatant lie. Don’t believe any feminists that say that. Feminists fight for women’s rights. That is a good thing. Feminists also are happy to harm men’s rights, as shown above. That is a bad thing. Feminism is about female privilege, not equality.

Some may argue that these cases of feminists harming men is not “representative” of feminism. I ask you: Are there any cases of feminists helping men? No. Yet, there are many cases of feminists harming men.

And guess what? Feminists are doing those things. And I am not a feminist.
So no, I am not a part of the problem, YOU are.^



I think my head actually exploded at this point. I tried to pull apart the last post but I think I'm just descending into furious ramblings now. She is talking utter SHITE right?

[ChickenNotQuiteKeeper]

Formatting failure right there. I give up.

[ChickenNotQuiteKeeper]

I've just been informed that I'm not open minded enough.

Clearly.

[mupperoon]

Who are these mysterious and powerful yet unnamed "feminists"? And if they are so damned powerful why aren't they doing a better job at ensuring that my day rate is the same as my similarly qualified male colleague's?

This sounds like one of the rants of that prize arse Steve Moxon. Except less sweary, fewer capitals and better written (although still stupid).

[ChickenNotQuiteKeeper]

She commented on a FB status about a recent article from the Bloggess on the Tumblr thing, and said that she wasn't a feminist because feminists want to beat down men (basically) and then myself and a couple of other people challenged her argument.

She just put this and I can't think of a way to respond without being patronising:

You're coming off as incredibly biased. You don't seem open to new opinions or information. Like, for example, that Erin Pizzey and Warren Farrell, two prominent second wave feminists, are now Mens Rights Activists due to Feminist actions against them and men, and the societal issues men face. I won't argue with you any further because it's a waste of time

Just had a thought, since when did equality become a zero-sum equation? To give women is to take from men? What the hell

[Darkesteyes]

OP She does realise it wont make men like her more right?

[LurcioAgain]

"You can't argue with stupid"

^^

This!

One tip I picked up at work (I work in a politically contentious field where we have our own equivalent of MRAs...) is "aim your comments at the lurkers". If you try to argue with her, it's like wresting with a pig - you both come out covered in shit but the pig enjoys it. Instead, cherry pick some of her more egregious errors and answer them with hard facts. For instance the shit about women in prison - point out that women are more likely than men to receive custodial sentences for non-violent crimes and link to the reports (I'm afraid that's not my field so I can't supply links - just one issue I have seen discussed on here).

The other thing is - well, I couldn't be bothered to read her whole screed, so I think you can comfort yourself with the fact that most of the lurkers on the facebook feed already have her filed as "nutcase... do not engage with."

[RamsaySnowsSausage]

I had a "debate" with someone on Reddit a while back before I realised that place is bad for my blood pressure who wrote out a very similar list...It's definitely a stock response, reposted and reposted.

I carefully and calmly did a point by point breakdown analysing all the links (most of the links take you to second hand stories about one woman or one women's group who did something vaguely related to the point). Took me a good 20 minutes but I was passionate.

Got called a 'fucking cunt who must be on rag week'. Followed by an incredibly long and patronising analysis of my analysis. Painful.

Unless you have a lot of spare time and stamina, just dis-engage. Block it and forget it... I promise you will feel better

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

I 'd be sorely tempted to respond with "Righty-ho, off you pop" to the last one.

[AnArgumentWithMyself]

Wow, I wouldn't even know where to start in responding to something like that.

Ramsey mentioned debating on reddit, have made that mistake myself and its always a bad idea (and rage inducing), especially when it appears the largest group on there is ignorant and entitled teenage / twenty something men.

[SolidGoldBrass]

'May I recommend that you adjust the fitting of your tinfoil hat?' That's one I find useful.

[Wonc]

yes say what SGB said ^

Although I agree with DarkestEyes that that is the crux of the matter.