Why do I find this Irritating?

[fionatalbot]

Ok

DD and DNephew are both 5 and have recently received their end of term reports. DD's report is very good-DN's more concerning- lots of 'emergings', few 'expecteds'. There are 5 months between them, DD is February born and DNephew is a 'July boy'.

Now, we are very pleased with DD's progress, but I am a little bit fed up of comments from various relatives- like- 'well, she's a girl, they're more mature' and DN is a July-born boy, it's to be expected'. DD certainly isn't particularly mature from my observations.

DN is 5 months younger than DD, which I know makes a huge difference at their age, but the assumption of differences in maturity and ability to cope with school because of their respective genders makes me feel slightly irritated and uncomfortable. I feel these comments are possibly doing both children a disservice- DD because her 'achievements'- such as they are- are potentially undermined by the comments, and DN because his parents may not seek extra support thinking that his behaviours (whole other thread) and attainments are normal for a 'July boy'. I can see the comments continuing throughout their school careers.

Is there any scientific research supporting my relatives' comments or are they stereotyping numpties ?

Any thoughts?

I'm trying to formulate to myself why I feel mildly uncomfortable with this. I would never say anything to my family btw.

[WalkWithTheLonelyOnes]

The reason you feel annoyed is because they are dismissing DD's acheivements due to the age gap. I'm a late summer baby and I was always in the top 5% of the year. Not bragging just saying that just because he is a summer baby doesn't mean his shortcomings should be minimised because of his age.

I can see why you're annoyed. They're essentially saying that if the two were born on the same day DN would acheive higher but he hasn't because he's younger.

I would also find it irritating

[fionatalbot]

Thanks for understanding walkwiththelonelyones.
It's impossible to vocalise in real life, I suppose, without coming across as being unfair and unkind to DN.

I just feel that if DD was a DS and had the same report, their reactions and comments would be very different. And that is not right.

[TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain]

Why are you comparing reports?

If some one asks, say DD did very well, delighted with her progress and leave it at that.


Well done to DD, though, be proud of her!

[Greythorne]

Do. Not. Get. Involved. In. Comparing.

That way madness lies....whether your DC is the one doing 'better' or the one struggling.

[WalkWithTheLonelyOnes]

TakeMeUp I get where you're coming from but at the same time there will always be this competition. (Presuming OP is close to DN's parents)


If DN scored higher than DD it would be because he is a child genius but if DD scores higher it is because she is older.

What they're implying is that the only value DD's acheivements have is to either show how good DN is or suggest that he would acheive higher if he was older.

They should be happy for both children individually

[fionatalbot]

I always try and avoid actively comparing the two children- although as they are so close in age it can be difficult.
The comments are from grandparents and other siblings rather than DN's mum, I have to say, she rarely invites comparison.

I suppose I could refuse to divulge any details of DD's report, which seems a bit of a shame.

I'm probably being unfair, thinking about it some more. I think the older generation are very concerned about DN possibly having SN and are making these comparisons as a way of reassuring themselves, rather than diminishing DD.

I suppose I should just be thankful that DD is a relatively straightforward child.

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Lots of people, teachers included, think girls mature quicker etc. They are probably more reassuring DN's mum then doing down your DD. It also sounds like his mum is more sensible than they are if she's ignoring the comparisons / I'm sure she is talking to the teachers as she needs to.

[fionatalbot]

well, yes, that is the prevailing belief. But is it true?
And is it fair on little girls?

[fionatalbot]

that girls mature more quickly, I mean

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't think it's an innate truth - though expectations of behaviour can lead to differences in behaviour.

[ApocalypseThen]

I think there are different expectations for girls which translate into more mature behaviour, even when the girl herself may not be more mature by some measures.

[WoTmania]

In Delusions of Gender' Corselia Fine discusses the idea that girls tend to do better at school because they are socialised into being quieter and are expected to sit quietly from an earlier age etc where as boys aren't and loud, noisy active play is greeted with shrugs and 'boys, eh' type comments.

I would be irritated too OP and of course you'll want to share a good report with close relatives. shame they've reacted in this way

[fionatalbot]

Thanks, WoT, that book sounds interesting.

[BranchingOut]

In fairness, large studies have found that season of birth does have an influence on children's attainment.

The EPPE study of 3000 children (followed from age 3 to 16) found that children born in the autum term on the whole did better than those born in the spring and summer terms respectively.

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Branching, I'm not sure if those studies corrected for the fact that younger children all used to start school later.

[DadWasHere]

Well, talented and gifted early education consistently has a higher percentage of girls admitted, at a 3:2 ratio. Some think the basis for that is that girls are better generalists and boys better specialists.

[BranchingOut]

No, as far as I know, but they did use techiques to control for a huge number of background factors and then look at a number of factors in isolation, including season of birth.

There haven't been any studies on a comparable scale since the single point of entry was introduced in 2008, so it is probably one of the best sources of evidence at present. Though it will be interesting to see if the new large study begining this year, I think, will have any findings on this point.

Anyway, the OP asked for evidence so I thought that it was relevant...

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Thanks, Branching.

[Banderwassnatched]

My understanding is that the evidence is there of an innate difference between most boys and most girls- that girls are more advanced socially at an early age because of superior linguistic skills. That doesn't mean every girl of a certain age will be more mature than every boy of the same age, but the trend is there. I know my two sons are kinesthetic learners, like many boys (and some girls), and that isn't always easy to accomodate in a classroom, hence why my daughter will outperform her twin brother in terms of 'getting gold stars at school'. And she does.

It's that thing- equal, but not the same. I'm really proud of how all three of my kids have done this year, but it would be fair to observe that my sons have had that extra barrier of having a classroom environment that doesn't necessarily match their learning style or their personalities.

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Bander, it's impossible to separate "innate" from "socialised" in those kind of studies.

[Banderwassnatched]

Sure it is, but for whatever reason, my boys are behaving differently in the classroom to my girl. I can entirely see why saying 'that's because they are boys' may be unfair, but at the same time I can appreciate why James-the-person has been slightly outpaced, if you like, by Phoebe-the-person, because they are different. Maybe that's because he's a boy, maybe it's not.

[BravePotato]

Don't compare reports.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

As you have found out

[fionatalbot]

This thread isn't solely about the comparison of reports It is about my family and friends differing reactions to the dcs reports based on their respective genders.

[Heebiejeebie]

Is the appropriate response that's she's cleverer and better suited to classroom learning? Or just well done, with no comment about the differences?

[Sulis]

It would drive me mad too. It also labels boys as 'thick', allowing them to create the culturally assigned persona as the gender that doesn't work so hard and mucks about. The whole 'boys will be boys' thing that allows boys to be more violent than girls. It's all bollocks but so, so insidious and prevalent everywhere

It also diminishes girls' achievements - also something that will be done for the rest of your DD's life. She did great but only because she has a uterus. Great that she got a promotion but we all know it's only because she's pretty.

You're right to be irritated.