Female body hair.

[MontyGlee]

Lots of people said this can't be done because society's controls are too strong.

Well, I'm not sure. Ok, so it's just a small-scale online trend just now, but you've got to start somewhere.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10968079/Womens-hairy-legs-I-hate-myself-for-shaving-but-I-just-cant-stop.html?placement=CB2]

[MontyGlee]

Every time

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10968079/Womens-hairy-legs-I-hate-myself-for-shaving-but-I-just-cant-stop.html?placement=CB2

[weatherall]

I'm a feminist.

The thought of removing pubic hair revolts me. I think that practice is porn driven and misogynistic.

However removing other body hair I don't think is problematic.

Armpit hair gives sweat more surface to cling to.

I shave that once a week.

Legs I do in the summer and for special occasions I the winter. I like the feel of them all smooth. I've never felt any pressure from partners to shave them.

[Picklepest]

I've never really seen it as a feminist issue. Maybe bald gardens but only because it looks prepubescent! Legs and underarms seem to be more about personal choice tbh.

[Snapespeare]

I stopped shaving underarm hair around 18 months ago, I give it an occasional trim when it gets a bit unwieldy.

In a way (in my head..) it helps me to identify as a feminist, because it's kind of like a code. If I'm wearing strappy dresses in summer and have a stretch at my desk or grab an overhead rail on the tube, then I am conscious that I am not confirming to a societal expectation of beauty and if anyone pulls a face at my under-arm hair, then I get that they think women should shave.

I don't find sweat that much of a problem. Use anti-persperant, wash daily. I have no problem with the natural smell of (un-stale) sweat.

[whereisshe]

Thinking about it and I'm finding it very hard to unpick why I do remove some of my body hair.

I'm rather lax about it, and don't bother if I can hide it (except underarms, otherwise I smell) but I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with hairy legs on show.

I know I only started due to peer pressure from other girls, so in that sense I only do it in order to conform with societal expectations. And society doesn't expect men to do it, so it's certainly to do with a conception of how women "should" look. Which has overtones of our decorative status etc. so I can see a feminist angle there.

But it's also about power. Knowing and following "the rules". It was one of the things I was bullied about at school, being blithely unaware until that point that it was expected. So I suppose there's a feminist angle there as well, in the sense that women aren't in the ruling class...

But on the other hand, good looking and well-presented give a massive boost to social status no matter who you are, so I think there's an overriding non-feminist angle that we're all just a bit shallow in our surface judgements of others.

I'm not going to stop though. I'm not sure what that says!

[Picklepest]

I cannot stand looking at hairy legs. Mine or anyone else's. Hair in tights makes me sick. It looks like a cleanliness issue (even if person is clean) and to me a laziness one too. Again even if that isn't the case. It's a bit like connotations of fat I guess for nearest comparison. The stereotype 'fat and lazy' which in individual cases is false but is a lasting 'phrase' (can't think of word). I don't see that a feminist issue either.

And code wouldn't cross my mind. I'm surprised there... If feminists want a code can we have a more stylish one maybe? Just clean manicured toes no polish or something? More likeable minimalist/norm core ? :)

[itsbetterthanabox]

Pickle are you disgusted by all men?
Hairy or fat people are not dirty you need to challenge that thought that you have not just accept it.
Hair removal is a feminist issue. We painfully rip hair out to be acceptable in public or in bed that's not ok. I know that I only do it because otherwise I feel embarrassed but I try to challenge that feeling.
Body hair does not make you smell more, it is not dirty or gross. 99% of men have all their body hair they aren't all unhygienic and stinky! Why is it only hairy women that stink?

[Shallishanti]

argh
it can be done.
Have not shaved my armpits for - I dunno- about 30 years. I don't smell. Think about men- do they smell? Not usually.
Legs- I have been walking about today with bare and unshaved legs. Nobody fainted in shock. I grant that if I'd been at work or similar - so that people had the chance to examine my legs- they may have noticed. But I reckon it's an open secret that I am a mammal and therefore have hair not feathers or scales on my body.
I'm clean, my hair is clean and well cut, my clothes are clean and I often wear jewelry - as far as I am concerned, this indicates sufficient interest in my appearance. Just cba with any more.

If you really can't stand looking at hairy legs ask yourself why and whether hairy legs on men are equally repellent- if so, why? I must confess I find lots of body hair on men unattractive, but this is just a personal aesthetic preference, like I prefer blues and mauves to yellow and orange- would not presume to expect a man to remove body hair on my account.

[ouryve]

Pickle - that's your problem, not anyone else's. Your reaction is quite extreme and illogical. And is purely down to conditioning. Body hair can be extremely beautiful. DS2 has masses of blond arm and leg hair which shimmers in the light. DH has long, long, ginger leg hair, which is actually rather enjoyable to stroke and twiddle :o

I have very dark body hair, but only shave pits and legs if they're on show. I quite like the feel of light summer clothing against bare legs, but I truly CBA in winter.

[TheHoundsBitch]

I shave my armpits because DH prefers it, he doesn't shave his face because I prefer it. Muffage is not an issue for either of us - sometimes I remove some/all of it sometimes I don't, legs, otoh; I cannot bring myself to have hairy legs in public DP takes the mickey but isn't bothered when they are v. hairy.
I think it is a feminist issue, because it's not really about individual choice; most people who do it, do it because it's expected of them.

[CaptChaos]

I don't shave anywhere. Why should I?

I am neither lazy nor smelly thanks for that

I have been to Ascot with unshaved legs and pits and no one batted an eyelid. I really don't get why a) the hirsuteness of any part of my body is anyone's business but mine, b) why only women are expected to remove body hair and c) why women get ridiculed for choosing not to bother.

I do find it odd how people who do the whole, 'Ewwwwwwww, she's got hairy legs/pits' thing don't seem to do that to men. They don't think men look smelly or dirty. They don't think men are being lazy if they don't shave their legs.

[meringue33]

Of course it's a feminist issue.

I wish I had the guts not to bother. It costs me £30 a month to stay hair-free and DH would divorce me

[Picklepest]

My reaction isn't extreme. It's normal. Otherwise there would be no magazines, beauty industry, waxing, razors etc. conditioned? Don't really care tbh. I'd rather fight employment rights, something that aw heck, matters to women.

[CaptChaos]

Yes, because being judged on how we look and whether we conform to stereotypical norms is just nothing really, isn't it? It doesn't inform men's contempt at all, does it?

I'm glad it's normal for you to think that I am dirty, smelly and lazy. Way to go!

[Picklepest]

It looks unkempt. This'll be a very boring thread if we all agree. That's why I used fat as a comparison. That's also illogical but gets used in same ways. I just don't get why this one riles people. Today it is normal. Might not have been 30yrs ago but it is now.

[GiantIsopod]

I shave. It's mainly for comfort, to me it feels nicer...and I sweat a lot. I don't care less what other women do though.

[expatinscotland]

I don't much care what others do, but I had so much body hair I would not be able to see my body for it, so I have been waxing so long I have destroyed many of my hair follicles. Growing up in a hot climate, too, I found it unbearably hot and uncomfortable.

I prefer how I look without body hair.

I also prefer men with little body hair.

[EBearhug]

I am lucky in that I don't have very hairy legs, and even if I haven't shaved for months (which sometimes I don't), it's not very obvious. As it is, it's about a month since I last did them, and there are some hairs about 1cm long, but I have to look quite hard to see them, so I don't reckon anyone else would notice. (Actually, I don't shave at all - when I do bother, I use wax.)

I do wonder if I might not feel quite so blase about it and would find it harder to ignore the pressure if the hairs were darker and thicker. I don't know - I don't wear make-up, so maybe I wouldn't care. As it is, I don't have to care. And I don't do my armpits that often, because it was causing too much damage to the skin. I do smell a bit today, but I think that's more to do with having spent a hot day in a stuffy office, rather than whether they're shaved or not.

I don't tend to notice other women's legs, though I did take a look a while back when I was at the pool, following a similar conversation. Some people do, some people don't, as far as I can tell. Doesn't make any difference to their swimming ability or anything, as we are not quite at world record-breaking speeds, because swimmers at that level do remove nearly all body hair, because it can make that tiny bit of difference. Talking of which, I once worked with someone who did a lot of cycling, and he shaved his legs, so if he came off his bike, the hairs don't catch on the road. He only shaved up to the bottom of his cycling shorts, though, which rather gave the effect of looking like he was wearing hairy shorts when the cycling shorts were off... So I think if you are going to shave, it's better to go from joint to joint, rather than stop half way up a limb.

But I think all the pressure does make some people feel very self-conscious about it, and it can affect their confidence, and because of that, it is a feminist issue, whatever I may feel about it personally. And because it's not really noticeable when I don't shave, I think it would be unfair of me to tell someone else not to shave.

[olivespickledonions]

I shave exactly what I want to shave. To what I think looks nice, and to how I feel comfortable. I do not shave because of how a man wants me to look, and I couldn't give two hoots what other women do.
Each to their own? Isn't that what it should all be about?

[Picklepest]

I don't care either. Shave don't shave. No hair off me so to speak. I'm not going to jump off the bus screaming am I? I'd barely give you a glance in RL. But sitting on sofa I can't say I like body hair. And I think a lot of people do think it's normal to be hair free on legs/underarms nowadays. I think this is a 'thing' that has moved from being a new thing sociologically speaking to a normal thing.

Regarding feminism with so many fights with so many issues that this one is feted as sort of a bar I find a bit silly. It turns into a method to kick you further "Ach, one of them" eye rolling by women and men. Or better. " not a serious feminist then eh?!" Wax don't wax really not ultimately interested but don't pretend it makes you a better feminist . It just makes me a non hairy legged one and you a hairy legged one.

[Snapespeare]

But it is conditioning because of the lack of images of women with body hair in mainstream media and the revulsion when someone groomed has made the dreadful faux pas of neglecting their armpit hair.

although I suspect madonna has an armpit merkin

[PetulaGordino]

Fat is a feminist issue though. There's a whole book on that

[Picklepest]

Another thought, how far back does hair removal go? I think of it as a 1960's thing. But that might be just decent razors. Waxing must be older. Sugaring older. You used to get like sandpaper mitts in boots. Where did it start?

Off to google. Waiting for kids to sleep so I can watch scandal....

[TheHoundsBitch]

Fuck me. Was that article written by a 13 year old??? 'Inner skank'? Really? stop the world, I want to get off.

[itsbetterthanabox]

It is all intertwined though. Because women are expected to look and act a certain way and that includes looking feminine it impacts on their employment. Women spend so much time and money everyday on their looks and even more time worrying about their looks that holds them back. All feminist issues are part and parcel.