We need a Bechdel test for music.

[kickassangel]

My suggested rules are:

1. Written by, or performed by a woman.
2. Not about love or wanting a partner or how good looking someone is.
3. Must not contain disrespectful tropes (e.g. The woman who tricked a man by looking so good but acting so bad)

I can't think of many but would suggest

Madonna, Holiday or Dance

Or Mariah Carey Dance with somebody

Or Cyndi Lauper Girls just wanna have fun

There are probably others about wanting to dance. This is a bit tricky as they often imply with somebody, or the while girls look nice but really are jay naughty minxes, but I am having to stretch a point here.

[kickassangel]

Sorry. Meant Madonna Get into the groove (listening to one song and writing about another) although te boy gotta prove his love so I guess it prob doesn't count.

Am I being too strict?

[AuntieStella]

The test for films is far from perfect, and I'm not sure it works on short songs. And is hugely confounded by the tendency for singles to be the soundtrack for courtship behaviour. But I'll give it a shot.

I'd look to place it within the context of a performer's total work.

(I'd also look back a bit, to when there was more passion/politics in pop).

X Ray Spex - in particular "Oh Bondage Up Yours"
The Slits

[kickassangel]

Well the point us to see what proportion of movies/music pass the test as an indicator of the messages sent out in popular media.

So I'd say about 25% pass would be OK as you'd expect a lot of songs to be about love and half sung by men.

But I doubt even 5% fit.

[StealthPolarBear]

Loads of Kate bush I expect, running up that hill?
Little bird by Annie lennox
That little mix song about flying (if Simon Crowell on the background doesn't ruin it!)

[AnathemaDevice]

Lots of Bikini Kill's sings would pass your test, but they're not exactly easy on the ears (I love Bikini Kill/Kathleen Hanna, but I'm the first to admit that they're an aquired taste!)

Hot Topic by Le Tigre (another Kathleen Hanna fronted band)

I think some of Lily Allen's songs would pass this too.

[Hazchem]

I've been listening to The Waifs today and they are a band so have a male female vocal but the women sing and play a lot. Almost all the songs I listened to form them today are not about love. or if it is almost political. The song Bridal Train is about Australian war brides leaving to go to America after WW2.
At least one of Emilee Sandee songs would count.
Would any of Dolly partons or Patsy cline How about kd lang

[DoctorTwo]

I like Warpaint. I saw them on the BBC's coverage of Glastonbury and they were super.

[Hazchem]

Also bands like hole, L7 and lots of the 90s grrl groups would count pass.
Worryingly I think katy perry would pass a fair bit. Lorde royals would pass. Sisters doing it for themselves would pass.
Lots of annie lennox, density child,

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

I think a lot of songs would fail the reverse Bechdel, unlike a lot of films, as so many pop songs are about love/sex.

I will think..

[Hazchem]

Joni Mitchell Big yellow taxi but there must be loads
Janis Joplin Mercedes Benz
Joan armatrading?
Tracy Chapman ?
The Bangles
But yes I agree with Billnted I think loads of blokes songs would fail the reverse

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Let England Shake by PJ Harvey
Winter by Tori Amos

Can I have "It's Oh So Quiet" by bjork? I know it's about love but it's about the emotion of falling in love not about a partner.

[Hazchem]

Oh I think so. actually I think quite a lot of Bjork would fit.

What about TLC, Salt n Pepa, Eve, Christine Anu, Nina simone - strange fruit, young gifted and black, I got my...

In fact I think part of it is I mainly listen to female singers because I like the sound of female singing

[Hazchem]

Also thinking about it don't think we have to discount love songs because depending on how they are emoted they can actually be a rally cry for holding yourself together and stepping either into love (which can be scary) or stepping away from love.

[callamia]

Joni Mitchell's Little Green.
Great Things by Echobelly
Devil Gate Drive by Suzie Quatro?

I'm going to get to work in thinking of more...

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

I Will Survive, then?!?!

[sausageeggbacon11]

Hell is for children by Pat Benatar strong song about child abuse.

However realistically 90% of music would fail because music is about emotion and life experiences in general and the strongest one we have in common is love.

[enderwoman]

I think there are a lot of good songs about not taking shit from a man. Off the top of my head
Destiny's Child - Survivor
TLC- No Scrubs
Destiny's Child - Bugaboo

My contribution to your test
Girl on Fire - Alicia Keys
Mean- Taylor Swift
Let it go - Frozen
Firework , Roar , Part of Me- Katy Perry
Beautiful- Christina Aguilera

[callamia]

Buffalo Stance.

[Keepithidden]

Most of Echobelly and Dubstar, two of my favourite bands would pass I think. Though they're both overtly feminist so not really that surprising.

[PervyMuskrat]

Halestorm Rock Show or Daughters of Darkness would qualify. The glorious You Call Me A Bitch Like It's A Bad Thing might fail but it's definitely worth a listen to when you're pissed off with the world.

[almondcakes]

Abba - slipping through my fingers.
Pretty much all the songs of Vashti Bunyan
Lot of stuff by Fairport Convention and Sandy Denny.
A lot of the stuff by the Trees.

[StealthPolarBear]

Came back to say big yellow taxi but I see it's been mentioned :o

[kickassangel]

OMG - Aretha Franklin, RESPECT.
OK, about how a bloke doesn't respect her, but more about what she wants than the guy.

Yes, I think a mixed band where females play a significant role would count. I was trying to think of the equivalent of 'two named female characters'. so songs by the White Stripes would count.

Last night I was sleep deprived and hormonally raging. Brain a bit more in gear now.

Was Density Child a deliberate typo?

[FishWithABicycle]

I agree that it would be good to have an equivalent to a Bechdel Test for music, but I don't think being written by/performed by a woman should be a requirement. Just like it is perfectly possible for a man to write and/or direct a film that portrays women positively as strong independent human beings who have concerns other than their relationship with the male lead, it is possible for men to write and sing songs which are respectful of women and don't just see them as sexual objects, surely?

[kickassangel]

But it's not so much about whether an individual product has feminist credentials. It's meant to be about the effect of watching/listening to all these things has on someone. Once someone has watched/listened to hundreds or thousands of products, what image do you have of women.

So, if you were an alien who somehow managed to tune into music from the modern western world, you would end up with the impression that women just stand by their man etc.
Or if you just watched Hollywood movies, you'd think that women were only about 20% of the population, rarely had names, and only ever talked about how much they fancy Mr Hot.

So, a music equivalent would have to pick up on traits that, when repeated over & over, gave an impression that women were - heard, respected, equal, to the men who sang songs.