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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Orange is the new black

57 replies
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EElisavetaofBelsornia · 04/07/2014 14:01

Really?? I watched one episode and found it full of annoying soft porn style lesbian scenes which were completely unbelievable and clearly aimed ay straight men. But each to their own.

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WhosLookingAfterCourtney · 04/07/2014 14:09

Give it a chance EE, it's really compelling.

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7Days · 04/07/2014 14:15

Agree with EE, I already gave it a chance and it blew it! I have heard it's very good but that level of pandering is a bridge too far for me.

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MontyGlee · 04/07/2014 14:26

Well, yes - but I suspect it wouldn't get made otherwise. The point is that the women in this are the majority and treated as complex characters that exist for their own right and not as a prop in a story about men. This needs to be supported.

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 04/07/2014 15:01

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EElisavetaofBelsornia · 04/07/2014 15:53

It needs to be supported as a series with lots of women in it, even if it has to pander to tired male fantasies to be made? I think I'll stick with my earlier assessment, thanks.

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LaurieFairyCake · 04/07/2014 15:57

What's the alternative?

Maybe we should have a disk drive on the web with all the good feminist dramas and films with good strong leads in them - that only women can access if men aren't watching with them in case they get aroused or jerk off?

any drama that's going to have good female characters going about their daily lives is going to be enjoyed by men surely?

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LaurieFairyCake · 04/07/2014 15:59

By the way that sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be - genuinely wonder what the alternative is.

I want decent shit to be made with women in it. About women, for women.

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MontyGlee · 04/07/2014 16:05

Sure, dismiss it as not sufficiently feminist. And the consequence is...? Next time we get Sex in The City again.

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EElisavetaofBelsornia · 04/07/2014 16:18

I'm dismissing it as a fairly silly drama with to much gratuitous male fantasy style girl on girl action. Most dramas are insufficiently feminist IMO but they don't all invite the jerking off quote so overtly. The alternative could be decent TV with female characters which both men and women could enjoy in the way they enjoy male dominated series, without the soft porn element?

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EElisavetaofBelsornia · 04/07/2014 16:19

too much

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cailindana · 04/07/2014 16:40

I'm on episode two. I was very disappointed by the explicit sex scenes in episode 1 as I didn't think they were necessary but episode two was far better so I'm hopeful. Piper, the main character, is a little annoying but I'm willing to hang in there with her.

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7Days · 04/07/2014 17:10

Nurse Jackie was an altogether brilliant show, but there was a definite nosedive in quality in series 3, I think. They started bringing in all this graitutious t&a for no reason. (Well, one reason) It irks me so I just started tailing off watching it.

Pulling was another great one, I think it only ran for one series though. Hilarious as I remember. 3 young women in a house share, getting pissed, shagging the wrong guy, fucking up at work, becoming social outcasts, that type of thing.

Neither of them explicitly feminist, but proper women characters driving the action and no cupcake and designer shoe references.

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mrscumberbatch · 04/07/2014 17:15

See, I think that the sex scenes are pro-feminist. As they're not the 'soft porn lesbians going at it' trope that normally gets trotted out for TV for scenes like these.
It's a bit more realistic- this is how women actually have sex.

Ultimately it's sex that gets the main protagonist in the situation she's ends up in. So it's integral to the story.

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CroydonFacelift · 04/07/2014 17:18

I thought the sex scenes were pretty good. Not the usual soft porn, male POV stuff at ALL.

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TheHoneyBadger · 05/07/2014 09:01

the sex scenes are of women actually getting women off - re: sex with the female orgasm at centre. i don't see that as a bad thing or soft porn nonsense of women groaning and moaning over sticking their tongues in each other's mouth.

definitely a lot of female characters and by series two lots of complex back stories to those characters and how they came to be where they are.

it's a yes from me.

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AnArgumentWithMyself · 05/07/2014 12:58

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kickassangel · 06/07/2014 07:03

I watched about 7 episodes and was just bored. The teenagers I teach watch it a well, so I felt a bit old for it.

However, I am currently watching Battlestar Galactica for the first time and enjoying that a lot more.

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TheHoneyBadger · 06/07/2014 10:17

i've been thinking about the sex scenes again (sounds good doesn't it?)

what i like is they portray it actually takes a bit of effort and time to make a woman come. that's a good antidote imo to the world of pawn where you have some woman groaning orgasmically over giving a blowjob.

i pity the girls who are entering their sexual lives in that context with boys who have been led to believe that women's sexuality is purely about giving men pleasure.

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ThisLittlePiggie · 06/07/2014 10:38

I cannot stand this bloody show.

Piper is clearly a very disturbed, emotionally stunted person with narcassistic tendencies and they portray this a cute and quirky and 'oh just so Piper' (little pat on the head for the pretty blond.)

It could be interesting of they went dark with it and explored a real person but no lets watch her trip and ditz her way merrily though prison with Ally Mcbeal like facial expressions, slapstick and comic music.

It's insulting to everyone that we are supposed to like this character for being cute, not for being complex a la Heisenberg in Breaking Bad.

And it's bloody worrying that so many people think she is just so great.

And lesbian sex scenes do not make a show edgy. Unless
your target audience is 12.

Hate hate hate this show. Sorry hit a nerve with this.

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TheHoneyBadger · 06/07/2014 10:51

hmm i don't see her portrayed that way. they very clearly display her self indulgedness and narcissistic tendencies and privilege. she's a character not a heroine which i tend to like to see. i wonder why you see her as 'cute' whereas most see her as foibled and a bit of a twat but still watchable. it may say more about how you perceive women with faults than how a woman with faults is being portrayed imo.

who thinks she's cute? everyone is excasberated with her.

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TheHoneyBadger · 06/07/2014 10:52

exascerbated exsaserbated i cannot spell it.

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LegoSuperstar · 06/07/2014 11:05

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ThisLittlePiggie · 06/07/2014 12:03

I'm not sure that not agreeing with someone's opinion of a portrayal of a character is grounds for making sweeping assumptions about their view of an entire gender... However...

Carmela Soprano is a wonderful example of a honest and non-apologetic portrayal of a deeply flawed woman who constantly balances her pious moral and religious beliefs with her love of wealth, her ego and her vanity. Beautiful and delicately managing or not, this conflict over the years, almost to the point of breakdown, selling part of herself over and over while still being a warm, multi-dimensional, complicated person.

OITNB like it or not is a comedy-drama which takes a character which has the potential to be similarly complex and layered and adds slapstick.

Without including spoilers I say up at the end of season 1 an thought actually we might have something here. Maybe they have been duping us all along (as season 2 breaking bad) and this is about to get real.....then back to season 2 a character that can barely get dressed or have a conversation without making some kind of slapstick funny.

Waste of opportunity and far from ground-breaking. I think the actress is doing a fine job with what she is given. The writing is appalling.

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TheHoneyBadger · 06/07/2014 13:04

err lesbians have sex - their sexuality is a part of who they are - it's a shame that irritates you and you see it as 'going on about it'. honestly it's interesting reading people's perceptions and how much it reveals about their internalised misogyny as opposed to what it says about the show.

it's a comedy. a mainstream comedy. i'm happy to see a mainstream show entirely centred around women as people rather than someone's girlfriend. i'm happy to see women having sex to have an orgasm and realistic portrayal of what it takes to achieve an orgasm. i'm happy to see women having complex back stories and being allowed to be morally ambiguous rather than just a madonna or a whore.

no it's not perfect but jesus it's an improvement on most.

i've no idea why we're comparing it to a male centric show like breaking bad. that's odd. maybe you just prefer watching men and don't judge men as harshly as you do women. who knows.

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