Explaining the bleeding obvious - why do we do it?

[rosabud]

I really enjoy reading the posts on here, they are informative, thought-provoking, funny etc etc. However, I can't bear it when certain posters appear and try to pretend that something patently untrue is actually true and instead of saying, "no that's ridiculous and clearly untrue", we all spend time and energy explaining, linking to research, proving that, in fact, it's untrue.

Let's say I join the Oxfam website and engage in forums where people keep discussing why many people in the Third World are suffereing from illness and starvation. Imagine if i kept posting, "but some people in the UK are under just as much threat from starvation as people in the third world - it's an equally serious problem." Would all the Oxfam people spend time and energy proving to me that, despite there being some very poor peole in the UK, it is not the case that it is an equally serious problem? Or would they just say, "you are clearly incapable of recognising the bleeding obvious and, for that reason, there's no real point anyone on our website trying to talk to you about the serious issues n the Third World."?

Why do we all feel tht we hve to keep "proving" that domestic violence affects women more than it does men? Of course it does. Anyone in our society who has more than half a brain cell can see that. Anyone who cannot accept this, for whatever reason, is going to be equally incapable of engaging with any serious analysis of any major issue.

Sorry if it's not the done thing to rant about this - but I can't help it, feel so frustrated about it!

[SauceForTheGander]

I know what you mean. I just shake my head and roll eyes.

But am impressed by, and grateful to, the diligent, patient posters who argue against the shallow posters trying to criticise feminism. I feel if a post is ignored it looks like we can't refute it rather than we're ignoring it.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

You are right rosa - I've said it myself so many times, but I just got sucked into that other thread. Like I don't have better things to do than argue with trolls.

BUt saying that - I do agree with Sauceforthegander too - I like that so many posters DO refute them.

Grrrr.

[EarthMither]

Damn right OP - it's seriously annoying and also often used as a surreptitious derailing technique imo. There's a great piece on this by Lindy West here

[SauceForTheGander]

Brilliant link Earth. Maybe we just agree to post that ?

[SauceForTheGander]

Are we talking about genuine mischief making or ignorance?

[EarthMither]

That's a really good point Buffy - I suppose the Lindy West link could be used in cases of last resort though (along with the altogether snappier response of "JFGI"*).

*Just Fucking Google It

[rosabud]

Yes, that's true, Buffy, perhaps there are a lot of lurkers who might otherwise be tempted to listen to the mischief makers if we didn't keep refuting it. I, too, am grateful to the posters who keep going with it. It's just so frustrating.

[rosabud]

Oh, crossed post. Should I not have started this? I'm never quite sure what is OK and what isn't. Yes, it was well-meaning though

[SauceForTheGander]

It can feel like ground hog day. The same ignorant questions asked day in day out.

I see it on the No more page 3 campaign FB page and it can be hard to remain well mannered. I know they (the objectors) think they are making ground breaking irrefutable points about sat, press freedom, but it's a question that is posed and replied to daily.

But Buffy is right when she says assume that a whole new audience is available and today is the day that we enlighten and educate. We miss that chance if we say "fuck off"

[rosabud]

Oh, I see!!

Err....well actually I did upset everyone once on Am I being Unreasonable, so have not ventured back there since!

[EarthMither]

No need to apologise OP - you've raised an issue which is a perennial problem for feminists both online and elsewhere (plus I got to share Ms West's excellent piece, which always makes me happy :)).

[SauceForTheGander]

People hang out on AIBU wanting to be upset!

[EarthMither]

Indeed Sauce - OP, don't let those numbnuts on AIBU break your stride. As another poster commented earlier today, AIBU is a "holding pit for internet fools" (nice one, Winnicas, if you're reading this).

[EarthMither]

Weirdly enough, this just popped up on my Twitter feed - an interesting counterpoint to West's piece which reiterates Buffy's POV above and ITCouldBe's post.

[rosabud]

That is a brilliant answer - and lessens my frustration slightly! Thank you.

[Bunnylion]

whenthered you're patience with the cut-and-paste-king-of-derailment on the invisible men thread is incredible - I wish I had it.