I'm sure many of you would have already seen/hear Dworkin's rape speech.....

[thefinerthingsinlife]

here

I've never heard about it before. I came across it as Jenson mentions it in his book.

WOW! This women speaks with passion.

[SardineQueen]

Thanks for posting this thefinerthings. Despite my constant blatherings on this board I have to admit that I have never read anything of hers before. I am very glad that I now have

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

I too have never read anything of hers. An amazing speech. It must have been very powerful to hear it live.

[SardineQueen]

When I've finished my OU course I have a fucking monstrous book list to get through...

This has encouraged me to put Andrea Dworkin at the top!

[yama]

Great speech. Have to run just now but will be back later.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Same here Sardine (Although mine's only an access to HE course). I've got her pornography book sat on the table to read next, after I've finished Jenson's book.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

...another thing about equality is that it cannot coexist with rape. It cannot. And it cannot coexist with pornography or with prostitution or with the economic degradation of women on any level, in any way. It cannot coexist, because implicit in all those things is the inferiority of women.


I think that answers a lot of the questions asked in numerous threads on this board about porn and prostitution. It's so obvious really, isn't it?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I think you hit the nail on the head there Inmaculada

[snowmama]

It is so obvious, and put into context heartbreaking. It is so important to keep (re)reading..

Where I am just stumped (and angry), is that I can get my head my head around tactical (liberal feminist?) interventions to individual issues/problems, but I don't know what we can do on a strategic (radical feminist?) way to cause such a paradigm shift that no rape for 24 hours anywhere is even a concievable reality.

[Missingfriendsandsad]

i'm sorry to differ, but I have a copy of 'intercourse' and it really is the ravings of a mad woman, not the balanced arguments of a real study of gender. Its an interesting perspective, in the same way reading mein kampf is eye-opening, but it doesn't stop her being a raving paranoid nutter.

[Missingfriendsandsad]

Also she doesn't understand that gender equality doesn't mean protection of women from all ills - that just a perversion of the victorian and edwardian idea that femininity should be a protected gender onto whom no wrong is done.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

she doesn't understand that gender equality doesn't mean protection of women from all ills

Where does Andrea Dworkin say that gender equality = protection of women from all ills?

Cutting rape (in its various forms) out of the equation wouldn't prevent women from suffering misfortune, would it?

[SardineQueen]

The speech that is linked on this thread is powerful and moving, and not bonkers in any way.

missingfriends when you say "gender equality doesn't mean protection of women from all ills" do you mean that feminists are wrong to object to rape?

[snowmama]

Missing you have made a massive leap by associating the right not to be raped with being protected from life.

That women should be able to go out about their business, work, mothering,relationships without the threat of violence or rape - just as men do every day - is really not a big ask at all

[Missingfriendsandsad]

I think its astounding that people still believe that women are more at risk of violence than men.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

you are kidding missing?

[sakura]

Missingfriend, I take it you missed the recent news of the mass graves found in Mexico. Half a Million women tortured and murdered.

By men.

For fun.

I'm not surprised you missed it.

NObody is reporting it.

because women's lives don't matter.

You can bet if half a million men were found dead, killed by men, we'd be hearing about it.
You can bet if half a million men were found dead, killed by women, there'd be a witch-hunt (or at least the police might bother to find out who the perpetrators were)

[Missingfriendsandsad]

I haven't left out those stats - at least not when I did a study about five years ago - you are making that up in order to attack an argument I havn't made. An aunt sally I think its called?

Men are much more likely to be victims of violence than women - I think its abhorrent that women still spread the control message that women should stay frightened and cajouled when there is no need to be.

[sakura]

what the what? making the what up?

Mass. graves. of. women. in. Mexico.

tortured. and. murdered. by. men.

for. fun

half. a. million.

[sakura]

although I agree with you missing, that women shouldn't be frightened to walk the streets.

Men are more likely than women to be attacked on the street. By men, of course.

Men beat up and kill women at home. Two women murdered a week by her spouse in the UK alone.

The moral of these facts are: men should stay at home at night and not wander the streets

women should not live with men

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Further to the points made; the violence against men that you speak of missing is also commited by men. So whether we are looking at violence against women or men the perpetrator is a man, (obviously not in all cases but the vast majority).

Sakura could you possibly post a link about the Mexico mass graves.

[SueSylvesterforPM]

I think its astounding that people still believe that women are more at risk of violence than men.

in her defence statistically black men are more at risk of violence that any other s. group in the world, but funnily enough they are the biggest perpatrators.

However women are brought to expect violence and equality nowhere near exists, men aren't instilled to accept abusive treatement then get blamed when something bad happens thats the difference missingfriend men ususally know who their enemies are women are usually hurt by people who are supposed to love them.

I'm not Intercourse, is it against intercourse?? what is it about??