Can anyone help me understand and explain Linda Loman’s role in Death of a Salesman please?

[Decentdragon]

My open minded 16 year old son is asking deep and meaningful questions about her, especially her allowing /living with lies, and women and 'the American Dream' and getting answers from others about women and their motivation that I'm not comfortable with, but I?m struggling to answer them well. :(

I've googled but I'm not finding much that helps.

Are there people here who know the book and would be prepared to help offer opinions, or point me in the right direction please?

[Lio]

Sorry Dragon, don't know the play, hope someone will come along to help you. Is it being taught at school or just something he's come across independently?

[Decentdragon]

Thank?s for answering anyway Lio. :-) He's doing it independently and raised a lot of questions. He asked on a couple of education type sites and got simplistic and quite misogynistic answers. I wondered if there might be more informed/balanced views here. :)

[AliceWorld]

Alas I don't know it either. Have you googled the name and 'feminist'? It's what I do when I try to find a feminist perspective on anything. I did it for this play, and some stuff came up, but I don't know if it's any use as I don't know the play. (Apols if I'm stating the obvious, not intentional)

[dinkystinky]

I remember studying Death of a Salesman at A level and being thoroughly depressed at Linda's lot... She's trying to live the american dream, and be the ideal mother figure, as society expects, but its all falling apart around her ears.

[Decentdragon]

Alice, thanks, yes lots comes up but nothing's given me what I'm looking for.

Dinky, son doesn't feel she is trying to live it. His argument is that Millar didn't see her as important but he says that's typical of male playwrights of that era and she's pivotal in helping keep the 'dream' small, and enabled all the men to lie and keep lying, and expects her son?s to keep the lies going for her husbands sake and is asking lots of questions about why a woman would do this.

[AgeingGrace]

The play was published a few years before the infamous Good Wife's Guide of 1955. A woman's role was to support her husband in everything he did; to question him would be a dereliction of duty.

I remember feeling very frustrated & angry on behalf of Linda (did the play for A-level) but having great sympathy for her predicament. My tutor felt I was reading a 'predicament' into it, as Miller himself was a product of that social set-up. So what your son said

[AgeingGrace]

Trying not to get too hobby-horsey about this (I was born in 1955) but, after reading the Good Wife's Guide, your son might be interested a bit of historical context? The second World War had women doing "men's jobs" in factories, transport and business.

Although equal pay was not law, many women flourished under their new challenges and ended up earning more than the men. Having their own money, decision-making responsibilites and being free to go about, socialise, etc was extremely liberating (despite the fact they still had to grow their own veg, keep house & kids AND maintian those hairstyles!)

In 1945 the war ended and the men needed their jobs back. But the women didn't want to get back in the kitchen. A massive public campaign was undertaken, in Europe and America, to promote "feminine values" and discredit independent women. This wasn't a natural social development, it was a deliberate campaign - iir, the biggest spend yet by the UK govt.

Within a few years, women who queried their position as mute domestic servants were shunned by men AND women. Some were even stoned.

[Decentdragon]

That's helpful Grace (and eye-opening link!) Do you know how much of that was a class thing?

[AgeingGrace]

Barely at all. In the US, probably none whatsoever. The British class system was obliterated by the first World War - it might not seem that way to modern eyes, but the idea of being born to your 'station' died along with the casualties of war and Spanish Flu.

[Northernlurker]

I haven't studied the play but generally I think Miller is more interested in men and their motivation. The female characters are an afterthought -which is interesting in itself of course.

[Decentdragon]

I know little but my own family (who aren't bog standard.) His maternal Grandmother (my mother)would have taken the kettle prop to any man who got in her way, but used to get spat at in the streets in the mid 60's for wearing mens working trousers, (but trouser suits and later hot pants, seemed to be acceptable) and his other grandmother was in service as a tweeny before the war, and went on about knowing 'your place' to the bitter end, and always defered to her husband, but grumped heavily about it. :)

[Decentdragon]

Northernlurker that's pretty much what son said.

[Northernlurker]

I was in the Crucible and from what I can remember the female characters are drawn fairly simply as 'types' whereas the male characters are far more complex and detailed.

[AgeingGrace]

I read an essay that said the play was a critique of the American Dream and the Little Wife. It's possible he'd never have got it published if he'd highlighted the inequities of Linda's situation - he was already challenging one of his audience's fundamental beliefs. I'm unaware of any particularly feminist leanings in the author, though, so unless there is evidence of that, it'd be a fruitless avenue.
Seems more likely Miller simply subscribed to his contemporary feminine ideal.

Phone rang while typing; sorry if I'm missed stuff.

[AgeingGrace]

Ah, x-post, Northern. Not a hidden critique, then :)

[harpsichordcarrier]

Hmm, well there are a number of different possibilities.
Linda could be seen as an equally tragic character, every bit as much a victim of the American Dream as Willy.
It is possible that she is used by Miller to show the true horror of Willy's wasted life - it has waste her life (and their sons) too.
OTOH - we are perhaps meant to admire her - she is loving, forgiving, kind... these are perhaps intended to be admirable qualities especially for a woman of this era.
OTOH (more hands!) she is loving and forgiving perhaps to the extent of being a door mat. PErhaps Miller thinks she should have guided Willy, been less absorbent of his shortcomings, pulled him up more often?
Her powerlessness could be read in a number of ways - a criticism of her, a criticism of the society that turns women into victims, or a criticism of women who act like victims.
Her passivity over WIlly's infidelities could be read in the same ways...

[ravenAK]

Symbolism - she's always toting a basket of washing about - her role is to make everything 'clean' & OK.

She's seen mending her stockings, because Willy never makes the money he aspires to - Willy's OW blags stockings from him - madonna/whore?

He describes her as his 'rock', & the insurance payout he hopes to get for his son via his suicide is a 'diamond shining in the dark' - so she represents the 'real' value in his life, which he never recognised or appreciated?

[AgeingGrace]

Oooh, yes, raven, that's what my tutor said!!!
... are you him?

[edam]

Ooh, I like harpsi's and raven's ideas. Haven't seen Death of a Salesman since I was at school, but do remember being incredibly frustrated by Linda.

And interested in what Northern said - hadn't realised there might be an issue in the way AM writes female characters. I loved The Crucible and View From A Bridge so much, was swept away by the themes without even pausing to think about the feminist angle.

[Decentdragon]

I really appreciate all the replies, it?s really helpful.

Harpsichord, son say's Linda's a bigger victim than anyone, but possibly the only one who could have changed things.

Raven I love the washing idea!

Edam, he?s got a few things to say about Beatrice and Katherine in a view from a bridge as well, (don?t think he?s read the Crucible) but he finds their characters more ?standard? and understandable.
He?s quite fascinated in Linda and what?s going on with her, and reckons however accidentally, Millar?s brought more to her character than he intended.

[ravenAK]

I agree with Northern - AM does seem to see women as 'types'.

DOAS is mostly 'a love affair between a man & his son' - which is the angle I focus on when I teach it (GCSE CW) - the women aren't fully realised characters because it's just not what he was interested in.

'The Crucible' is v similar from what I remember...

[ravenAK]

& Decentdragon, I reckon your son's onto something in that AM brings more to her than he intended! That's actually something I'll discuss with my A* GCSE lot...interesting idea

[Decentdragon]

Thanks, it's really helpful to get feedback as I'm a bit out of my depth with some of it but really would like not to be.
Really appreciative of everyone who's responded to this thread. :)

Re 'a love affair between a man & his son' son reckons it's interesting that Willie seems almost disinterested in his second son who's far more like himself.

[edam]

All My Sons is very much about the relationship between father and son, too. (Obviously!). Maybe that was Miller's chief interest and he just wasn't into exploring female characters.

[Decentdragon]

I think you're right from the two books we've read, but I'm pleased son's felt you can't ignore women's impact.