working and wearing

[hairytriangle]

Hi, I have an issue and wondered if any of you have any insight.

Three times in my current (high profile, well paid) role as a CEO, men (who perceive themselves to be somehow 'senior' to me but aren't) have made comments about my mode of dress.

Once was about my (three very small silver stud) earrings in one ear - at which one man said 'I like your earrings - not sure if they are appropriate for your role though' and once about a colourful boden 'kaftan' style top I wore to a meeting - very smart, not beachy at all, but I was asked 'oh are we off to the beach later then?'

All of this makes me think they don't take me seriously and I'm fed up of it.

Much of the time I wear a suit to work - trouser suit (I don't generally 'do' skirts).

Would it be anti-feminist to mirror their 'grey suits' next time I'm in this meeting, in order to be taken more seriously? I do have a gray suit that I wear sometimes... or would that be copping out?

[AnyFucker]

Although I sympathise, I do wonder why, as a "high-flying, well paid" woman, you are taking any notice at all of people making personal comments about your dress

Changing your dress to "fit in" seems to me like the ultimate in anti-feminism

I think you should just carry on in whatever way you see fit

[greenlotus]

Sorry but that makes me think of Mrs Thatcher in Spitting Image in the suit and tie!

Also I have noticed with my DH that men simply do not "get" the subleties of women's fashion, e.g. he calls my waterfall cardigan "that gone-wrong cardigan" and will not believe it is stylish at the moment, likewise a long tunic I have "why are you wearing that top which is too long?". They are probably just clueless and stuck in the 1980's. CEO type men are probably the worst at this. They will just be noticing you look a bit different but can't make sense of it and hence come out with a crass comment. Can you store up some one-liners to return?

[hairytriangle]

You know what AF you are right.

I do have

1. issues with 'authority' which sneak back sometimes and
   

1. a need for approval which sneaks back sometimes.
   

I thought it seemed like anti-feminism too.

thanks for that.

I suppose I just wondered if changing ones behaviour/dress was ok - in terms of the fact that we all have to adapt sometimes?

[hairytriangle]

greenlotus good points!

I'm really bad at one liners, but someone suggested I could say 'gosh you seem to take a keen interest in women's fashion - I'll bring you some of my magazines next meeting'

[AnyFucker]

there is adaptation and adaptation, HT

you wear what you want

fuck the lot of 'em

have just realised this isn't AIBU, so slight apologies for combative tone, but I stand by what I say

[sethstarkaddersmum]

I disagree with AnyFucker. I don't think it's a cop-out at all

You choose what your priorities are on any given day; if on a particular occasion you want to blend in with the blokes for whatever reason, you don't have an obligation to wear feminine clothes.

It's another version of 'you do what you have to to survive in the patriarchy.'
Who is to judge whether the most feminist thing is to wear the clothes you like best even when it may hinder your career because of their prejudice, or whether the most feminist thing is to use clothes strategically to be as successful as possible at work? It's just not at all clear that one way is better than the other.

As long as you don't then enforce the same daft rules on women junior to you, I don't see the problem with you playing the game in this way.

You may view clothes as an essential expression of your personality or you may just reckon (as I do) that clothes are not who you are, they are just clothes.

[AnyFucker]

seth...but who decides whether wearing a particular style of dress will hinder a career ?

if Op was saying she was wearing crop tops, skirts up her arse, or girly pink, pink, pink I would say "well, maybe you won't get taken seriously..."

but what she described is within the realms of normal, if informal, workwear

she should wear what she likes, within a broad range of what is acceptable within certain professions

I for one, could not wear anything provocative, nor decorative...but I accept that is for professional and health+safety reasons

[sethstarkaddersmum]

but she suspects they would take her more seriously if she dressed differently and she wants to be taken more seriously.

[AnyFucker]

your work ethic, your professionalism, your aptitude for the jonb should enable others to take you seriously

like I said, unless you are dressing like Jodie Marsh, your actions should speak volumes

[sethstarkaddersmum]

It should, I agree with you absolutely about that. But what if you suspect people are judging you by how you look rather than how you do the job? Sure, they are being twats, but if the price of success is wearing a grey suit rather than a nice Boden top why not just wear the grey suit?

[AnyFucker]

I would suggest that we remember that we are in 2010, not the 1980's a la "Working Girl", nor should we be conforming to the shite stereotype that is "The Devil Wears Prada"

serious is as serious does

[sethstarkaddersmum]

so are you saying different clothes wouldn't make any difference to how the sexist dinosaurs men see the OP?
Or that even if it did make a difference it would still be wrong to change what she wears?

[AnyFucker]

seth, I am saying that within a range that is acceptable wrt to modesty, professionalism and appropriateness then it shouldn't make a difference

I didn't say it didn't make a difference, I was responding to the OP's question as to whether she should dress in boring grey suits to pander to the "sexist dinosaurs"

and I say no

[TechLovingDad]

Men, especially men who feel threatened by women are arseholes.

Ignore them and continue as you are. You look professional but also stylish. They are just finding fault, as they feel threatened.

I bet you look them in the eyes when you talk to them as well, men hate that. Keep it up.

[vesuvia]

I'd recommend that you stick to what is comfortable for you. If grey suit does it for you, go for it. If not, that would be fine too. Don't change for other people.

Remember that you are the CEO, you're in charge. Personal comments on your appearance by your subordinate employees are above their pay grade.

[hairytriangle]

I sure do look them in the eye. I think I'm going to have a long list if my achievements on hand for next time. Recite it and say "and I did it all while wearing three earrings would you believe"

[AnyFucker]

nah, ht

you don't have to say a thing, honestly

[hairytriangle]

I guess i just carry on as I have and let them be petty and shallow.

[AnyFucker]

you know your worth

spelling it out to fuckwits just makes you look like you need their approval

and you do not

[hairytriangle]

Right again AF :)

[TechLovingDad]

They already know your worth, that is why they feel like scared little boys and search for tiny ways of belittling you.

[RibenaBerry]

Hhhm, see I would have a slightly different take on this again. It depends really what area of business you are in and how formally people dress.

In law, everything is v v formal (suits for most firms, most days). A guy wearing a patterned shirt or whatever would have had the same sort of comments.

I guess what I am saying is, were the comments because the formality of your dress was out of step with what those around you (male and female) would wear, in which case I guess it's a question of how much you want to say "stuff you, I'm CEO". Or was attention focused on you because you are a woman, in which case I agree that there is a stronger feminist angle to the issues.

Now, of course, taking it wider there is a question about whether it's an example of the patriarcal structure that these dress standards exists but that's a much bigger battle to fight, and I think you need to work out which battle you are fighting before you pick up arms!

[TechLovingDad]

Actually, if you're a CEO just sack them all.
Call it cut backs.