Cleavage

[jibbet]

Call me a Prude, Old-fashioned, Whatever (I'm sure some will!) but watching the Boris Johnson interview I noted with some queasiness the deep cleavage revealed by one of the mumsnet interviewers.

It irritates me intensely to see women in professional situations, e.g. Jackie Smith in Parliament, or my locum GP, revealing inches of titillating cleavage. For a young female doctor to be flashing breasts while in consultation in a small room with male patients strikes me as risky. In these business situations, men are still required to be covered from neck to toe in sober suiting and restrictive collar and tie, surely women should also sport sober attire?

Such displays undermine credibility, compromise respect and distract colleagues - some might get the wrong idea.
Maybe some women want that?

[TotorosOcarina]

They're tits.

get over it.

and it good for feminism to insist all women cover up is it?

Cause they are dirty things aren't they any any woman showing a cleavage is obviously a slag.

[Sequins]

The problem is that you are societally conditioned to consider cleavage titillating. It's not really, it's not like a man with his penis out. It's not shocking, it's just human flesh.

[Sequins]

DH just made a very rude comment about JS and her DH's hotel bill ...

[SpeedyGonzalez]

FWIW I agree with the OP. Less is definitely more - too much flesh (on women AND men) and you're making yourself look more like a sex object and less credible.

I also loathe the current fashion for young girls wearing crotch-skimming micro mini skirts.

I also think that if a man wears butt-clutchingly tight trousers it's boaksome. And that moobs on display are unpleasant in the extreme (all the more so if they're hairy!).

I certainly wouldn't call it unfeminist to dislike large displays of cleavage.

[jibbet]

Get over what exactly?

I'm not insisting anything. I thought women wanted to be taken seriously ( yes sometimes I like being seriously taken!) in certain situations, not as continual PHOOOAAR material.

[Sequins]

Yes, all those old men in Bermuda with their skinny legs out all day - phoar!

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I'm surprised to see this OP. Cleavage is a societally normal part of your body to be revealed by clothes (unlike, say, your arse crack) - as shown by the fact that women's shirts for example often leave off the top few buttons altogether.

I totally fail to understand the meaning of this: "For a young female doctor to be flashing breasts while in consultation in a small room with male patients strikes me as risky." Do you really think men are so thick as to mistake a trip to the doctor for a blind date? Or are you saying that if a female GP is assaulted at work it will be her fault for being such a temptress?

Also how much cleavage you show is dependent not only on clothes but also on breast size/shape etc. Clothes which are the soul of modesty on my flatter-chested friend look downright daring on me. In order to cover up completely I have to wear clothes that barely expose my collarbone, and even then the shape is clearly visible (unless tents become required dress).

[Remotew]

If you are ample of breast it's difficult not to look titillating. High necklines show them off, blouses can gap and even sensible necklines can reveal cleavage. What are we supposed to wear and why should we worry about it, it's the female form afterall.

[jibbet]

Sequins
We live in a society where we can still be accused of provoking the rampant male by revealing normally concealed flesh. At times it's sensible to dress according to the occasion.
I think a lot of young girls who dress , or undress, to be fashionable, have no idea of the effect it has on men.

[Sequins]

Sorry jibbet I disagree, your argument is the same as some people use to dress women head to toe with only eye slits

[choufleur]

I'll go and get a burkha then to be considered seriously at work from now on.

I don't come on the feminism threads very often and this is why.

[Sequins]

nudist does not = rapist
So why should cleavage = willingly putting oneself at risk of rape (which is what you are implying)?

[scottishmummy]

what a bizzare post.if a female doctor is subjected to risk,then the responsibility lies with the prepetrator. i think you are being purposefully contentious

[jibbet]

Thanks Speedy G for your support!

[jibbet]

Scottish etc:
Some people who visit GPs aren't entirely of sound mind. THough in my experience, some GPs aren't either

[scottishmummy]

yes.and...

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I forgot - hormone changes affect breast size too, so something which is fairly "covering" three weeks of the month is, erm, not so for the fourth week.

I think that dressing "professionally" is much harder for women to achieve (in fact I started a thread in this section about it ages ago). In part this is to do with the kind of clothes that are made and sold IMO. Men don't have parts of their body that they would reveal on a night out (IYSWIM :o) that they would be considered "unprofessional" to reveal at work. So men's clothes (formal or informal - except shorts, but they're not exactly night out material) tend to cover up from the collarbone down to the feet, and at least the top of the arms. But women are expected to cover up their cleavage at work, but to "get it out" for evening events. Likewise short skirts are terribly bad in the office, but fine for a night out with colleagues. As a result women's clothes come in a huge variety of shapes, and it can be really hard - depending on fashion - to access affordable clothes of the type considered "professional". For example last autumn when I changed jobs and had to be smarter, the fashionable skirt length was bum-skimming, or longer but tight over the arse. As I had no wish to reveal my arse to my fellow commuters and co-workers, I had to scour the shops for literally days before I could find something marginally acceptable.

Anyway what I'm saying is that clothes that show off cleavage are available, in fact sometimes they are all that is available. It doesn't bother me in the least if a professional person has their cleavage on show. I'm not a 13 year old boy and am perfectly capable of keeping my hands and my eyes to myself.

[Sequins]

"the rampant male" indeed, you are implying all men are latent rapists. This is misandry.

[jibbet]

It effing does matter what effect your dress has on men. YOU suffer any unpleasant consequences

[jibbet]

Elephant
I've seen advertised little lacy things you can stick in low-necked clothes to cover up if you want to

[scottishmummy]

poor clinical knowledge,inappropriate professional manner,poor judgement all certainly compromise and distract colleagues. chosen attire doesnt usually.although the odd that bag those shoes may cross my mind (esp the males)

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

er, choufleur, I think feminists are usually the people arguing that women should be allowed to wear what they want without fear of assault or comment. So please don't let this put you off!

At least, I think of myself as a feminist and that's what I would say.

[jibbet]

Sequins! when I say 'the' rampant male, I said 'the' rampant male - not the lot of them!