Women as enablers

[TheFowlAndThePussycat]

Right, I'm thinking on the hoof at bit here, so bear with me.

I was listening to Roald Dahl's biography on r4 on Thurs. It described the period in his life when he divorced Patricia O'Neil, who he had nursed back to health after a stroke & married a woman with whom he had been having an affair for 10 years. Basically it ascribed his great burst of creativity & productivity towards the end of his life (bfg, witches etc) to getting out of his unhappy marriage & to the 'peaceful' and 'comfortable' environmen created for him by his second wife.

Now, I don't have a problem with this per se & I don't want to make this about RD himself, he didn't write this book & he might have disagreed strongly. O course we all work better when we are happy than when we are unhappy.

However, it seemed to me to be a perfect example of this prevailing attitude in society that women are there primarily to enable the comfort/acievement of other people. I.e. It's the wife who looks after the home/child care so that the man can get on with achieving stuff. It's the mother who feeds & cleans & does homework so the child can acheive at school. It's the grown up daughter who cares for the elderly parent because her brothers couldn't be expected to. I know that lots of men do all those things but the expectation of society is that women do them.

So my question is, is the idea that women are caring enablers actually completely poisonous & oppressive?

[ISNT]

I thought RD sat in a manky old shed to write? Doesn't take much to provide a manky old shed. Even I could do that!



Re your actual point yes of course you are right. And I was thinking about this earlier, that I have a stinking cold and feel like crap, and when i ring my parents maybe they will offer to take DD off my hands for a bit (ha! no chance). Anyway, then I thought, but they can't come round, the house is a pigsty, they'll think I'm lazy and scummy. Then I thought, they would never think DH was lazy and scummy or that he should do something about it.

Home = women's realm has for ages will for ages unfortunately.

Also had a good reversal on this the other day, talking to a friend with an immaculate home, saying how lovely it was and how she must keep on top of it. Then realised that of course her DH and daughter must be doing it too, she agreed this was the case. Home - woman gets all disapproval or all approval, irrespective of what the rest of the family are doing, and even when they are all working the same hours etc.

The answer to your final question, is, of course, YES.

[IsItMeOr]

I agree, the answer to your question must be yes.

It is so hard to avoid slipping into that habit though, as habit it surely is.

[UnePrune]

Can't it be a simple as the fact that some people will spark each other off in some way?
If he wasn't getting on with his first wife, but did get on with his second, it figures that his creativity will have been freed up somewhat - it's a question of vocabulary chosen to express it.
The writer might say the second wife 'nurtured' him, she 'created' the environment, which negates any description of their relationship as a collaboration - and some relationships just are wonderful collaborations. Could it be a failing of the writer to express it in a more 'equalist' way?

[UnePrune]

Sorry, realise your point was far more general.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

I have often joked that I need a "1950s wife" to look after the background detail of my life. I used to say this even before I had DD. I think the idea of having someone to facilitate one's needs is very alluring. It would allow one the freedom to focus on one's work, passions, etc. I'd love it as long as I didn't have to make an emotional investment in the "facilitator"...

Anyway, to answer your question, I think this unpleasant "woman as enabler" attitude actually goes back to the Victorian "Helpmeet" idea. I found this when I was looking for something to prove my point. Of course, this only applies to middle class women really as women from the lower social strata had to work as hard as the men for less money (no change there then - rant, rant).

I think it's a cultural expectation, sadly.

[ISNT]

I would love a 1950's style wife as well

In reality I would love to be able to work full time and pay someone to do the housework and childcare... Actually I suppose that is something to aim for, maybe

[Sakura]

Urgh, Japan is feudal in this sense.
I practically had to force my divorcee SIL to leave her parent's house, where she was living with her brother's family as well as her parents, because it turned out she was doing the majority of the cleaning, because she felt guilty for being a burden. MY DH and I helped her search for her own flat and set up on her own. She didn't want to, the family though we were mad. 3 years later she has a good job, still in that flat and is looking really well

[Bonsoir]

ISNT - "In reality I would love to be able to work full time and pay someone to do the housework and childcare..."

Really?

I know lots of women who live the lifestyle you describe. I could live that lifestyle if I so chose. I should hate it!

[Sakura]

I don't think it's as easy as individual women declaring they are not going to be enablers. Society conspires against the women and makes them feel as though they're freaks or unnatural if they don't adopt the caring role. It's only after I emigrated that I realised my parents had been expecting me, as the only girl to sort of look out for them in retirement. Women are expected to be mature, as old as the universe, whereas sons are allowed to get away with all kinds of shennanigens.
I'm a woman with feminist consciousness so I can see it, but if you're not aware of feminism, it would grind you down, or you'd go mad because of all the social rules foisted on women that don't apply to men.

[ISNT]

Each to their own bonsoir.

[IsItMeOr]

TheButterflyEffect - maybe women are running the world then, but in a cunning double-bluff make the majority think that men are?

[IsItMeOr]

Belledame - I found this a couple of weeks back, which is really interesting on where the role of housewife comes from.

According to this, it simply isn't correct that woman has always done this role, but that industrialised society has seemingly been brainwashed into thinking that is the case.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

IsItMe I'd absolutely agree with that without even looking at the article but will definitely read it!

[BelleDameSansMerci]

IsItMe that article is fantastic (not least because it confirms what I've always thought and I like an article that does that ).

I've never felt guilty about having a cleaning lady and I feel even less so now.

[Miggsie]

Excellent article, but the number of unhappy couples who live together in an immaculate house, thinking that is the be all and end all is depressing.

My brother says he has a good wife as the house is spotless, and the washing machine is on constantly.

The fact his wife is an alcoholic who belts the kids and him seems minor in his world view. So men as well have bought this myth that a clean and tidy house is the path to happiness.

I have a cleaner...I confess, and she LOVES cleaning, she does all sorts of cleaning including special needs sheltered housing as she just loves it.

[ISNT]

I really enjoyed that article as well, thanks isitmeor

[IsItMeOr]

Thanks - I thought it was a good read. I liked the idea that it had developed in a way akin to Darwinian evolution, so it wasn't particularly by design, and also doesn't mean it's the only effective way for society to operate, allowing hope of a fairer way.

[TheFowlAndThePussycat]

Sorry to have disappeared, I've been off enabling .

isitmeor yes, that article expresses perfectly exactly what I am trying to get to, it is that equation that doing domestic stuff equates to love. That is exactly what I've been struggling with (personally I mean). The distinct tone of the book I was discussing in my earlier post was that RD's second wife loved him more somehow because she provided this calm environment for him. As I said, I don't have a clue whether that was the case but the author clearly thought it was an obvious given that the one thing led to the other.

Actually, thinking about it more since my first post I think there is a darker side to it too, like the criticism and lack of understanding of women who choose not to have children, or chose to leave the family home after having had them. Don't get me wrong, I think it's terrible that either parent feels that they have to leave their children, for whatever reason, but let's face it, men do it all the time and nobody blinks an eye. If a woman does it she is vilified. And a woman who chooses not to have children is viewed by society as somehow less of a woman for giving up this caring role. And of course it cuts both ways, as it is immediately assumed that the man will leave the house when a relationship breaks down.

What a challenge though not do do any work which is not reciprocated - including not paying for childcare or cleaning etc. I really like the thought of trying to restructure my life so that was possible. (thinks.....)

[ISNT]

Yes those women who you mention who make life choices that are different to the norm are considered to be weird, emotionally stunted, have something wrong with them, and that they're missing out enormously.

Men who stay single forever are looked at a bit but they are not judged as harshly, and a man with no children is not pitied in the same way as a woman. For a man it is accepted as a reasonable choice, for a woman it must be the result of some personal disaster, or she must be a total weirdo.

[ISNT]

Those are comments mainly made by people of my parents generation, admittedly.

[JaneS]

I don't like the rhetoric either ('helpmeet', etc.). But it occurs to me that I'm constantly saying to DH that I'd struggle without him. When I was doing my Masters dissertation he literally brought me food and took away the plate afterwards, he woke me up with a cup of coffee, etc. etc. Is it offensive to him that I tell people how much I depend on him?

I know it's unequal - we share the domestic stuff but reliably, when I have a busy patch he ups his share. Does that mean I'm taking advantage of him?

[ISNT]

I love the way that I am posting on here about how disgraceful it all is, at the same time DH is at work and I am looking after 2 children, have done 3 loads of washing, hoovered throughout, done two massive piles of washing up etc etc etc.

[Bonsoir]

I read that article and think it's a load of claptrap. Of course families can take the decision to outsource housework and childcare if they wish to do so - I am surrounded by families that do so and those that don't live that lifestyle and have a SAHP are clearly in the minority.

The real issue is that most women don't want to be available for employment outside the home to the extent that really well paid jobs require. One of my very best friends spends 1/3 of her time, month in, month out, travelling for work in Asia. She is very clearly in the minority wanting to do this. And she had to negotiate like crazy to get away with so little travel - her male boss travels 3/4 of the time.