chicken or egg?

[ullainga]

I'm new here so I'm sorry if this topic has already been discussed to death. I'm curious though.

We seem to have a very high concentration of highly educated and professionally successful women here. So it made me wonder - what do you think, are you successful because you started out as a feminist and did not listen to all those "Oh but girls can't do that"?

Or did you become feminist later on your way when you had to deal with all the narrow-minded sexist people trying to tell you where a woman's place is?

[RamblingRosa]

Both. I started out as a feminist because my mother raised me as a feminist. I've then become more and more convinced of my feminist principles over the years as I have seen how women are treated in the world of work and I've become more and more aware of casual sexism and misogyny that exists in our culture.

Actually, having my DD was a real turning point in my feminist thinking. Up until then I'd always been very independent, lived by myself, owned my own flat, worked hard, had relationships on my own terms. all of a sudden I was on maternity leave with a layabout DP leaving the flat in a mess, taking no responsibility for anything, never getting up in the night when DD woke, not helping with housework etc etc. I felt like a 1950s housewife with endless food shopping, cleaning, and general domesticity.

It made a lot of feminist principles which had just been theoretical to me before, suddenly seem a lot more real and relevant to my world!

[msrisotto]

I never thought sexism was alive anymore. It was when my eyes were opened to objectification, and the way that other women are treated that made me angry. Maybe it was being one of 2 girls but the idea that we couldn't do something because we were female, never entered our heads.

[msrisotto]

"I was also influenced by MN." like a naughty older sister

[fluffles]

it never entered my head growing up to hold myself back for any reason, particularly not my gender [thanks mum and dad ]

but i didn't consider that 'feminist' particularly until i reflected on wider society and how unusual my own experience has been.

p.s. i am well educated (very) and consider myself sucessful in that i'm doing what i want but i am not a high earner and so the masculine world would probably not consider me 'sucessful'.

[ullainga]

Myself, I think I was raised as feminist, although my parents would not identify themselves as such. But there were never even any hints that girls/women are somehow worth less or cannot do things that boys/men can. I was told to study so I could go to university and have a career, not so I could go to university and meet and nice man to support me. I assumed that everybody thought the same way and this is the way things are.

There were bits and pieces that told me that this is not the case, but I generally just ignored those. Until they got harder and harder to ignore.

University professors who considered teaching girls a waste of time; employers who said that "But it's a good salary for a woman!". Male colleagues who tell young working mothers that "why do you even have kids if you don't want to take care of them!!", even though they have kids the same age themselves (but that's of course different ). Car salesmen who treat you like an idiot and ask if you have your husband's permission..

So I guess what I considered just "normal" opinions and attitude, that a woman is not inferior in everything because of her gender, are actually feminist ones.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I was raised to be the polar opposite of a feminist. I was a housewife, worked a menial job, raised the children because thats what I was taught by my parents (I have now realised they are toxic parents but thats a different matter).

I 'came to' feminism because of MN. Now My DH does his fair share of the housework etc, and I've gone to college so I can go to uni next year. I'm so much stronger and independant now, and I wish I hadn't 'wasted' so many years being submissive.

[postingforafriend]

I was lucky when growing up from an education POV in that I went to girls' schools and there was never any suggestion that girls weren't capable of anything.

What made me identify as feminist (if asked) from the age of about 16 was the way I was treated by boys and men - the looking and following and groping and leching and all of that, I absolutely hated it. I couldn't understand what made these men and boys think they had the right to invade my personal space and not go away / comment as I walked past / all of that stuff.

Later on when I was pg with DD1 I found out that I was being paid less than the men for teh same work, and I was better at it. I tried to raise it but as I was pg obviously didn't have a leg to stand on.

I always identified as feminist if asked but had never done any reading, or looked at websites or anything like that. Took an interest in women's issues in teh news, stories about women, and about girls and education and so on.

Then I joined MN and one day came across Dittany in full flow and it was mind-blowing - here was someone putting into words so much of what I felt but had never even put into proper thoughts before. And teh rest is history These days I am posting on here 19 to the dozen and reading books and everything! It's all good. (Thanks Dittany )

[postingforafriend]

Oh balls I've got my other name on! Erm I'm a regular poster on the feminism board sorry about that!

[TessOfTheBurbs]

• women who have posted, not woman. Typo, honest. Bet nobody believes how "well-educated" I am now!

[postingforafriend]

Tess totally agree with your second paragraph there about work. I am very good at work and I really like it - but I have slipped behind males who I started out with, and then took a step right back on purpose as it was "what you do when you have a baby". I have ballsed it right up and am trying to steamroller ahead ASAP to get on now, but I fear it's too late.

[postingforafriend]

oh for gods sake I thought I'd changed my name back there, now if my work mate friend who I'm posting for on another thread reads that I'm going to look like a right bighead. Gah!

[stirlingstar]

I think I was raised a feminist - particularly by my Mother. Also had two very positive experiences of being at an all girls school, and then in a small female minority in what had been an all-boys school, and finding myslef similarly successful in both settings - so think that made me very confident in my equality IYSWIM. Also did well in my "male" degree subject and in "male"(ish) industry - so generally had the experience of making may way OK in the same (traditional) arena as men. In retrospect, this was the easy aspect of feminism.

Not sure if that is well explained, but overall I suppose I found being a feminist quite easy really until I had kids. Then suddenly faced a lot of (unanticipated )challenges about how society saw me, how I saw my role etc, how I negotiated everyday life with DP. So, as others have said - I think I started feminist but got a wake-up call when reached motherhood.

[postingforafriend]

If you want highly educated and professionally successful you need xenia

I have a reasonable education and do OK at work...

[Takver]

Definitely successful because of feminism - brought up by both parents to take the opportunities offered and challenge teachers/school etc if they weren't being offered to girls (which in primary school they often weren't).

Having said that I'm not conventionally successful in my initial career - but that also I think was partly due to my upbringing, in that my parents definitely would both value a happy life and/or a socially useful job over and above a high paid job.

[ullainga]

just to clarify, I definitely did not mean that successful necessarily or only means earning lots of money.

[postingforafriend]

What about you ulainga? Are you a feminist, how did you come to it?

[ullainga]

I already posted about it a bit earlier. Yes, I'm a feminist and if I know think back, have always been. I started identifying as feminist I would say some time between my first degree and first jobs, when I started meeting more and more people who thought this was not actually a joke.

[ullainga]

sorry

[ISNT]

Whoops sorry I had read the thread honest

(I'm the person who asked you, I'm rubbish at this namechanging lark!)

That Harry Enfield sketch is brilliant