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MMR or single measles...please don't judge!

(47 Posts)
momacharlie Fri 19-Apr-13 21:01:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ladycelestial Fri 19-Apr-13 22:08:57

There is absolutely no reason why a child should react to a different immunisation. This is because the illnesses are completely different and the actual act of injecting the child would not cause any systemic reaction. With the current outbreaks, I would definitely get your child immunised with the MMR.

Ruralninja Fri 19-Apr-13 22:10:32

Mumps can make males infertile, so would have thought even more important for DS.

pansyflimflam Fri 19-Apr-13 22:11:36

Stick to singles. There is one outbreak, not many. Single measles would be safer imo

SanityClause Fri 19-Apr-13 22:16:38

The MMR has been used successfully in many countries since the 1970s. The irony is that people perceive that the single vaccines are safer, but in fact they are much less tested, so the risks associated with them are less well known than for the MMR.

There have been no studies, for example, to show that the single measles vaccine cannot be linked to autism. There are a number of studies, including the famous Wakefield study, which show that there is no statistical link between the MMR and the incidence of autism.

ladycelestial Fri 19-Apr-13 22:16:50

The MMR is perfectly safe. Wakefield, the doctor who did the research linking the MMR with autism, has been completely discredited. He should be in prison if you ask me.

SanityClause Fri 19-Apr-13 22:18:56

And if you are unsure, get advice from your GP.

scaevola Fri 19-Apr-13 22:22:29

Pneumonia is one of the major complications with measles I have no idea which jab might be better for DS, but if it is a particular concern, then you really need to get one of them into him ASAP.

Ruralninja Fri 19-Apr-13 22:23:15

The threshold for striking off for the GMC is criminal negligence with the same proof threshold as a criminal court. He received money and exploited vulnerable children (e.g. submitting them to unnecessary medical procedures like lumbar punctures) in pursuit of his discredited research. The attached link compares some of the risks. www.ncirs.edu.au/immunisation/education/mmr-decision/measles.php

noblegiraffe Fri 19-Apr-13 22:42:50

The pneumococcal vaccine isn't live, so can't have caused the pneumonia. Also, vaccines cause far less burden to the immune system than normal things children are exposed to, there is no evidence that they can overload the immune system. Studies have shown this idea is nonsense.

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 00:07:39

If you are happier with the single measles vaccine then go with that. You can always check immunity to mumps before puberty and then consider vaccinating against it if necessary. Over 30% of csses are completely adymptomatic.

According to the HPA there is no firm evidence that mumps causes sterility. However mumps can have more complications in post puberty boys such as orchitis.

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 00:09:33

I'm wondering how they studied that noble. confused

bruffin Sat 20-Apr-13 01:48:01
bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 06:31:16

Was that supposed to answer my question to noble?

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 20-Apr-13 06:58:19

the MMR is perfectly safe

Don't state such ignorant biased shite so flippantly, for your own sake ladycelestial No vaccine is 100% safe on each individual child and a case in Italy ruled the MMR had done considerable damage to a little boy.

OP if you feel better doing the single vaccine then go for it.

ladycelestial Sat 20-Apr-13 07:30:04

The scientific evidence shows that the MMR is safe. WaynettaSlobsLover posting otherwise is scare mongering and irresponsible. Already we are seeing outbreaks of measles following parents being scared to get their children immunised. Unfortunately, as well as measles being a very unpleasant illness it can cause very serious complication.

Conjunctivitis (eye infection).
Laryngitis (inflammation of the voice box).
Ear infection causing earache.
Infections of the airways, such as bronchitis and croup, which can be common.
A febrile convulsion (fit) occurs in about 1 in 200 cases. This can be alarming, but full recovery is usual.
Encephalitis may cause brain damage. Some children die from this complication.
Hepatitis (liver infection).
Pneumonia (lung infection) is a serious complication that sometimes develops.
Squint is more common in children who have had measles.
A very rare brain disease called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis can develop years later in a very small number of people who have had measles. This can sometimes occur several years after getting measles. This condition can be fatal.

ladycelestial Sat 20-Apr-13 07:39:52

There was extensive research already available on millions of people around the world on the safety of the MMR. Wakefield's report, dealt with 12 children.

I would ask the following questions:

Why are the general public so ignorant of scientific methodology?
Why are the media so ignorant of scientific methodology?
Should the media be held more to account for blatent scare mongery?
Why is Wakefield not in jail?

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 07:41:05

Lady, nothing waynetta said is false. No vaccine can be said to be 100% safe (have you read the vaccine inserts?) and a child did recently win a court case in Italy in relation to vaccine damage from the MMR.

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 07:41:51

Lady, do you know what a case series is?

noblegiraffe Sat 20-Apr-13 07:47:14

Bumbley, when vaccines are added together, they are tested and blood tests taken to check the immunological response. If the immune system were being 'overloaded' this would be evident then. If the immune system couldn't cope with lots of vaccines at the same time, you'd expect the immune response to the multiple vaccine to be weaker than to single, spaced out jabs. However, this isn't the case at all.

This article explains it thoroughly

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full

In particular
'Of course, most vaccines contain far fewer than 100 antigens (for example, the hepatitis B, diphtheria, and tetanus vaccines each contain 1 antigen), so the estimated number of vaccines to which a child could respond is conservative. But using this estimate, we would predict that if 11 vaccines were given to infants at one time, then about 0.1% of the immune system would be “used up.”

However, because naive B- and T-cells are constantly replenished, a vaccine never really “uses up” a fraction of the immune system. For example, studies of T-cell population dynamics in HIV-infected patients indicate that the human T-cell compartment is highly productive. Specifically, the immune system has the ability to replenish about 2 billion CD4+ T lymphocytes each day. Although this replacement activity is most likely much higher than needed for the normal (and as yet unknown) CD4+ T-cell turnover rate, it illustrates the enormous capacity of the immune system to generate lymphocytes as needed.'

WidowWadman Sat 20-Apr-13 07:51:07

Just because an Italian judge (i.e. not an expert in immunology) made a dodgy ruling, that doesn't mean that scientific consensus has changed.

This is not to say that vaccine damage never occurrs, but, autism is not one of potential adverse effects and the relation of the number adverse effects to number of vaccinations given is miniscule, especially compared to the number of adverse effects and deaths caused by the disease in relation to infections.

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 08:04:36

Expert witnesses probably helped him make that decision Widow. If you don't know anything about the court case you probably shouldn't speculate about whether or not the ruling was 'dodgy' hmm

Waynetta's point is that no vaccine is 100% safe and that MMR can cause vaccine damage (like any other vaccine). Considering that there vaccine damage compensation schemes I think scientific consensus is that it can and does happen so way beta hasn't said anything false.

bumbleymummy Sat 20-Apr-13 08:05:14

Noble, I'm not ignoring you - it's a long article so I want to read it properly later before I reply smile

WidowWadman Sat 20-Apr-13 08:11:23

It's this one you refer to, isn't it? I stand by "dodgy ruling". Ruling was based on Wakefield's "research" after all.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 20-Apr-13 08:42:11

I stand by what I say. You have spoken biased flippant shite. Don't ever tell any person that a vaccine, particularly one as reactive and unpredictable as the MMR is 'safe'.

I was one of the children who had the MMR and was extremely sick afterwards. According to my mum and to my medical records I did not sleep much, and displayed psychotic behaviour as well as self harming. I haven't shared this before on mumsnet. My gut instinct as a mother, as well as being a former HCP myself, and the research I have done has made me come to an informed decision about the MMR and vaccinations. I won't be doing them.

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