So we got 2 new horses on loan, with the view to buy one of them..

[allgonebellyup]

And the one that we were planning on buying has turned out to be a lot more bolshy than we planned. When she first arrived at our yard she was scared (i think) and kept rearing when we tried to put her in the stable. She has to wear a chiffney as she is so strong when being led to and from the field - but this was ridiculous.

She is a 14'2hh connemara x welsh, 20yrs old! But bolshy as anything.
The thing is, though, she is the loveliest pony to ride and my daughter who is ten feels very confident when riding her although still a novice.

The other horse is lovely and we are hoping to buy her, and perhaps loan the bolshy one? The 2 horses are v attached to each other and have been together 4yrs.

i dont know whether to send the pony back or not? i feel uneasy around her and handling her but i am assured this will come wiht time. My kids are already attached to her.

What do i do??

[allgonebellyup]

i have 2 weeks to make up my mind before the owner either wants me to return her or not!!

[PigletJohn]

20 years old and bad tempered?

you can do without her

sorry

plenty more fish in the sea, pebbles on the beach, etc. I think I can see why her owner wants to part with her. Also at 14.2 she is going to be a bit small when your daughter gwows 2 foot taller in the next year.

[allgonebellyup]

Yes thats what i was thinking.

Although i am 5'7 and ride her fine.

She is sold as being an absolute darling - i know she is a great jumper but her stable manners leave a lot to be desired and i find myself being scared of her

[CluckyKate]

Go with your instinct - it's usually right

In all honesty she doesn't sound like the type of pony you can trust to be handled by a 10 year-old, plus if your daughter can't groom & lead her etc. she's missing out on half the fun.

Oh, and plenty of adults ride 14.2 ponies so I wouldn't think she's going to out-grow any pony that size too quickly, if ever (unless you're a family of giants )

[allgonebellyup]

Thanks. Yeah, my daughter can never lead or groom her, so its a lot of wasted money too!

Also we have to get all the other horses back in their stables when we lead her onto the yard as they tend to freak out when they see her coming...

[whatwasthatagain]

No No No - get rid. Easy for me to say as in your shoes I would be very dithery - but you know it is the sensible thing. As Cluckykate says, half the fun is the messing about with them.

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

I am really divided in my opinion on this post! What is your daughters opinion on the subject? Mine is really nervous, and when we found a pony she was comfortable riding, we grabbed it with both hands! Luckily she is lovely in every way. How does your daughter feel about not being able lo lead her? In terms of the leading rearing issue, my gut says get rid, but having experience of an over bitted pony, I would possibly consider ditching the chifney and trying nicer alternatives like a dually or knotted headcollar, or even just leading in a normal bridle. Sometimes horses over react because they are or have been frightened and this behavior has helped them in the past. Kelly marks has written some good books about communicating with and understanding your horse. However, I also know a pony that sounds exactly like yours, who has serious issues and is just a horrid git if you aren't on his back and has never changed.
As to size, IMO you have to either be huge, or have a really weedy pony, to ever outgrow a 14,2! An average sized woman shouldn't have a problem, you didn't, so size wise, your dd shouldn't outgrow her. Or at 10yrs not for several years. The problem might be that if she jumps, the pony may not be able to jump the sizes your dd wants to as she gets older and she may want a horse.
I think ultimately, I would go back to basics beg/borrow Kelly marks books, different types of halters and or bits for leading it in and see if you can find out why it behaves as it does. There is always a reason!
Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do.

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

But I also agree with clucky, your own gut is the best gauge, I had the mad horse I mentioned on loan for 4 days and just new that whatever I did, I wouldn't manage him! Sometimes no amount of trying will work, and you just know it!

[allgonebellyup]

Thanks Saggycloth

My farrier thinks she is a lovely pony; even he told me to lose the chifney and invest in a BeNice halter - has anyone used one of these?

She does seem to resent having the bit in her mouth, and she only started rearing when the heavy-handed woman at my yard started yanking her around.

We went to see her last night, i told my kids that we might not be keeping her; they were both in floods of tears and were just hugging her, and she was nuzzling their head...

[frostyfingers]

I second the use of a Dually headcollar. I use one for loading my horse who rears up at the slightest pressure and it certainly helps. It also helps leading round the yard, not because he's a rearer there, but sometimes just plants himself and refuses to move. If you pull his default mode is head up and back away, but with the Dually (and the instruction on how to use it) he doesn't do it.

Give it a bit of time - get lots of people to handle her gently, stroke round her ears, take the headcollar off and put it on again, lots of time, let her get to know you and trust that you won't pull her about etc and see how it goes. If she still does it then it may be best to let her go though -an adult can cope with an awkward one, but it's no fun for a child - and rearing is dangerous.

[allgonebellyup]

Thanks

She only ever has reared up when the chifney has been in her mouth and the scary woman at the yard has been yanking her really hard - she obviously hates the pressure on her mouth.

Its the barging in and out of the stable i dont like!!

[allgonebellyup]

OOh, yay, her owner says i can keep her for another 2 months to try her out!

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

well look at it like this.. She is nervous, has a new home, and new people, and she has one of the nastiest bits ever put in her mouth and some loud horrid person yanking on it an causing her pain.. wouldnt you rear? stronger bits can be a vicious cycle, the horse reacts strongly, so it gets a bigger bit, which hurts it so it becomes evasive and harder to handle because its unhappy, so it gets a stronger bit etc.
One thing my horsey mentor taught me, is that usually, bad behavior isnt a horses fault. We either give them the wrong aids or handle them badly or try and dominate rather than work with the horse.
I dont know if you initially put the chifney on her, but this is the last resort, there are so many alternatives for leading/loading a horse before you get to a chifney.
firstly I would NEVER let the loud scary woman near your horses, and second, buy a kelly marks book, start with join up and follow what she says.
Sounds like you have a nice pony who is just a little frightened.

[allgonebellyup]

Yep i think i agree with you, i am still fairly inexperienced at handling horses (only used to ride rather than handle) and do feel quite protective of her when she has that chifney in her mouth and that woman yanking her around telling me i have to be firm and "show her who's boss."

The pony is also very protective of the other horse we have taken on (theyve been together 4yrs), she barges me into the fence (electic!!)when she sees me taking her out of the field, so i quickly have to take them both out at the same time.
IT seems she wont be separated from her - and when i ride the other horse we have to put the pony in the stable where she then tries to kick down the door until her "friend" returns.

[allgonebellyup]

Also, she is only ridden in a snaffle (but with a drop-down strap) and is gentle as anything when ridden... she also seems ok to lead around with her bridle on so far...

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

did the scary woman put the chifney on her? She definitely sound like someone I wouldnt let within a hundred miles of my babies ponies! Take the chifney and stuffitupherarse give it back.
Unfortunately, it is very common for ponies to bond, and suffer separation anxiety when their friend goes away. Can you try putting another horse/pony in the field so she is never left alone, I have 3 ponies for just this reason, although mine all live out, and I pay a fixed price for my field, so it doesnt really cost extra. If she is happy leading in her bridle, lead her in her bridle!, otherwise, 'be nice', 'dually' and knotted pressure headcollars all work well if used properly. (I have never used one of those commanche things which go under the top lip, think they look terrible!)
When handling her, think 'calm', 'patient' and 'understanding'. You dont need to use force, it is usually pointless! As I said, Kelly Marks is great, she really makes you think, and Join up is amazing.

[allgonebellyup]

No, her old owner who seems v kind gave her the chifney - i did just call her to see if she had ever tried using a pressure headcollar on her and she said yes - but it doesnt seem v effective?!

[frostyfingers]

You will have to be patient, and I agree with Saggy about bonding etc and being gentle. However you do need to be firm too so that she knows barging and pushing is not appropriate - you don't have to shout and pull her about, but give clear, firm commands, and reward good behaviour.

I had a long conversation with my vet recently (he was commenting that my horse was well behaved and easy to handle!) about how sometimes people let them get away with things because they aren't firm enough in handling them. 1/2 ton of horse mucking about is downright dangerous!

I won't tolerate bad behaviour, and both my horses behave well, and know their boundaries - it's very like bringing up children really (easier in that they don't andwer back too!).

Another thought - do you have a loan arrangement in place re vets bills, insurance etc - 2 months is quite a long time if you haven't.....

[allgonebellyup]

Thanks for that. I know i am a pushover and the horses seem to know it!

I am already paying insurance and vets bills etc as i was meant to have her on long term loan/to buy.

[allgonebellyup]

To update: the naughty horse last night decided to kick the other one quite badly, and i ended up paying 200 emergency vets fees!!!
i have only had them 3 weeks!!!

The naughty horse is now going back to where she came from.

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

Shit. That is really crap AGBU, I am really sorry to hear this. If it is any consolation, this happened to my friend, except she had had her 2 geldings for years. The first time she put them out together, one kicked the other and broke its leg. Thankfully it was only the splint bone, and the horse was saveable, but the bill was way in excess of £1500!
I quite agree that you should send it back, you know in your gut when enough is enough.

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

You also know in your bank balance!