Bit worried about dd1 going off to ride this pony

[happyhacker]

There is a pony in a field in our village who dd1 (12) has known all her life - I think he is about 15, he hasn't been ridden for at least the last 7 years. For a year or so dd1 has been going down to groom him and pat him etc. A few months ago the old man who owns him said that if she wanted she could ride him, so she has very carefully and sensibly been riding him around the field. He started off very stiff and wheezy but she is now cantering him and today she popped him over a cross pole, his wheeziness has gone although he still blows a lot and his stiffness has improved (she has been doing some basic stretching exercises with him!). She goes down on her own to do this. Basically, do you think this is OK? I should get some sort of insurance shouldn't I? Should I pay for the vet to come out and look at him - not sure how to broach this without seeming patronising. It makes dd1 so happy to do this but I am a bit worried that she might over stretch him...or that she might fall off and then what happens if she seriously damages herself - will we be insured without specific riding insurance?? Sorry lots of woolly questions, would love some reassurance or not!

[LisaD1]

I would not be happy with this unless there were other people at the yard as I would be worried incase of accident.

Re the insurance, I have always had sharers for my horses and have always insisted they have rider only insurance with the BHS, this covers them and my horse should they have an accident.

Re the vet, has the horse been having his vaccinations? My vet always does a yearly check up at this time, could this be done?

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

Bhs membership as a minimum, gives you public liability,personal accident cover and free legal advice. As for the vet, if the horse is lame or underweight, maybe, if he is fittening up nicely then I wouldn't bother. None of ours are vaccinated, never have been. It might be worth asking the owner if he has ever been wormed though, and it doesn't cost too much to slip him a syringe full.
As for going down alone, I definitely wouldn't let my dd12 do this. I'd be very reluctant to ride completely alone myself! She at least needs to text you when she gets on and when she gets off to let you know she is ok. You or another responsible adult needs to be there. Also, as the horse hasn't been ridden for so long, You really need someone who knows what they are doing to check the saddle fit. A horse can change shape over the course of one summer, let alone 7 years, and it wil Change shape as it gets fit. If the owner isn't really knowledgeable or bothered, I'd be looking for a mentor of some kind for support and advice.
Do you have any kind of agreement? If the horse gets sick or goes lame, who will be responsible? A basic loan agreement will give you some rights and boundaries, you wouldn't want dd to get it fit and going nicely only to see the pony sold out from underneath her, having been used to do all the hard work for free, and you would also get some idea of what you are responsible for.

[happyhacker]

thank you that is very helpful. We have come to a compromise that she can go alone to groom etc but when she is ready to ride she will text me and I will come down, OR she will go with her younger sister (who doesnt ride) who can run back if there is a problem. She doesn't hack him out, is just in the field which is one field away from our house.

[happyhacker]

oh and meant to say I will definitely get the BHS memberhsip, that is great, thank you

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

Sounds sensible. My horsey mentor says I am over protective, and we would have ridden alone when we were kids, but id rather be safe than sorry!

[Booboostoo]

I am so glad this is working out and your DD is having fun, but to be honest had you asked BEFORE she got on this pony I would have advised you never in a million years to have allowed this. Horses can be very dangerous animals because they are large and unpredictable. Often they are much more dangerous on the ground, a horse can kick out and catch a kid right on the head, or they can spook and trample a child with no warning whatsoever. Please don't assume that a child is safe handling a horse alone.

Luckily this seems to be working out, but as others say I would not leave a child unsupervised with a pony, especially one you do not know well. Does she wear a hat, a back protector and suitable footwear? Ideally she should wear her hat both handling and riding.

I don't know what your DCs are like but adding a younger DC in the mix seems more likely to me to cause problems than solve them. What if DD1 decides to show DD2 how to groom? IMO a very dangerous situation.

[happyhacker]

Yes dd2 does groom and to be honest I have no problem with it. I understand what you mean, but by your criteria I can't see why you would EVER groom or ride a pony alone! I'd only be standing by the gate anyway so if they are grooming with me there and get kicked in the head there will be absolutely nothing I can do about it anyway (god forbid that ever happens). I am more worried about them having their toes broken by a pony who stands on their feet (bitter memories )

I completely understand that ponies are unpredictable and I always get dd1 to take her phone, and 9 times out of 10 I am there to watch her ride.

I know a bit about ponies and this pony is very very easy, he leans on you to be groomed and I have never seen him spook. Of course that may not mean anything, but I have also known ponies who are marish and very flighty and I wouldn't let dd1 ride alone.

[happyhacker]

yes she wears a hat all of the time but no back protector (she does have one) I might suggest that, yes suitable footwear (jodphur boots and chaps)

[Callisto]

When I was this age I would go and spend the whole day with my pony. Mobile phones were not invented then and we used to go all over the place, in some pretty remote areas. Sometimes on my own, sometimes with friends. I'm not saying terrible accidents don't happen, but you lot are all being very over-protective.

OP if your DD is sensible (and it sounds like she is) I can't see anything too awful happening. She will fall off, if you ride horses that is what happens sometimes, so I would recommend a rule that unless she wears her back protector she doesn't ride, but I wouldn't stress too much about the rest. If the pony was going to kick or buck with her it would have happened by now so it sounds like it is good natured. I imagine the pony is barefoot too which makes it a bit safer.

[Booboostoo]

Yes I would not leave a child to groom or ride a pony alone. Riding is an extremely dangerous activity and I would not want my children doing it unsupervised, but each to his own.

You did post asking for advice specifically on whether your DD should be riding an unknown pony on her own and I am afraid my advice is a complete and utter no.

Callisto: the whole idea of risk is that sometimes you get away with it. For every person who got away with not being sufficiently safety conscious around horse there are twenty who did not. There is about one report a year of a child dying from a kick to the head while trying to bring a pony in from the field and horse riding is one of the top causes of head injuries in children. I am sorry but I also don't agree with the idea that if a pony was going to kick or buck it would have done it by now. A pony can kick to get rid of a fly, an unfit pony may be quite docile until it gets fit again, any pony can trip and fall (especially an unfit one!).

Finally and I will shut up a note on the pony's welfare: when was the last time it saw a farrier, a dentist, a saddle-fitter and of course a vet for what sounds like its COPD?

[Callisto]

Booboostoo - riding is not an extremely dangerous activity. Driving a car is far more dangerous and yet we all subject our children to this, and various other dangerous things, without batting an eyelid. I've been around horses and ponies all my life and I have yet to see one kick at a fly in a life threatening way.

I'd love to see facts and figures to back up your assertation that only one in twenty people get away with not being sufficiently saftely concious around horses. That is 19 people who get seriously injured for every twenty. If the odds were that high I think horses would be treated far more like tigers and be licensed accordingly. As for your one child per year (out of a total of 10 horse related fatalities a year according to an article by the BBC) dying from a kick to the head, 5,000 children a year die in road traffic accidents.

I think that the OP has not been particularly sensible this far and luckily her DD is sensible and the pony seems a good sort, but I really think that the hysterical nature of your post doesn't help anyone.

[TenderlyLovinglyByAGoat]

I don't know, don't think of self as over protective but blood was running cold when I was away and getting updates over phone - hacked to village today, left pony in co-op car park with some random while I got sweets, got bucked off galloping across someone else's land in my pyjamas, jumped this, jumped that. She always wears a hat though and if anything lacks confidence so it's probably all good stuff on balance, and she is much better than me at checking her girth is tight etc., but is also usually with friends and grown ups are not usually that that far away. Someone usually has a rough idea of where they might be and for how long, and one of them often has a phone although how much use are they when there isn't much signal in the wilds of Suffolk?

[TenderlyLovinglyByAGoat]

might change my name to 'I DON'T KNOW' actually

[Butkin]

15 isn't old for a horse at all but agree that good idea to get him and his tack (particularly his saddle) checked over for his sake more than your DDs.

We've let DD (8) go off to ride ponies without us but always with an adult around. With your 12yo as long as there was somebody capable to step in if there was a problem then she should be fine.

Certainly good idea for her to wear her back protector - DD always wears hers except in the show ring.

Sounds like it is all working out and I'm delighted that your DD is having fun.

[Booboostoo]

Callisto - driving is also a dangerous activity which is why we take great precautions when driving, especially when it comes to having our children in cars. I wouldn't dream of speeding or having a child unrestrained in a car any more than I would dream of leaving a child unsupervised with a pony. Both are risks, both are risks I would be willing to take with my child because of the corresponding benefits, but both are risks I would want to manage and minimize.

I've also been around horses all my life and have seen numerous horses kick out because of flies. For example I have had a horse go balistic while ridden because of a fly in his sheath, I have had a horse kick an arena board only to disturb a nest of wasps I'll let you imagine the results, we have a lot of flat flies round here which drive the horses crazy, bot flies can upset a lot of horses, etc.

The one in twenty was not a statistical fact, it was a figure of speech. For facts on head injuries in children and riding see:
15% of injuries occuring while handling: content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?doi=10.1159/000084280&typ=pdf

head injuries causing 57% of equestrian related paediatric deaths
pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/89/6/1173.short

riding more dangerous than motorcycle riding, skiing, football and rugby
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002961007001031

this one seems to show a correlation between injury and lack of adult supervision although I have not had time to read beyond the abstract
www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_12_171201/holland/holland.html

this one ranks riding as second most dangerous only to pedestrians being hit by cars and above other vehicle accidents. It also cites head injuries on the ground from kicks as 30% and likely to be more severe than other injuries. It also mentions adult supervision as one of the injury preventing factors.
www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/_wms/publications/wmj/pdf/104/2/50.pdf

The "one child a year" was entirely anecdotal, but you can't compare fatality figures without mentioning participation figures.

To back up though the gruesome anecdotal fact:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12620303

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192900/Girl-11-dies-kicked-head-pony.html

www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-horse-kills-vandalia-child,0,6346897.story

I don't think my post is hysterical but I do think yours is irresponsible in encouraging the OP in placing her child in danger simply because you took a risk that luckily failed to actualise.

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

One child a yer is killed by a kick to the head...
Yes, and one person a week wins the lottery, ten people a year are struck by lightning and 231 people a year are killed by falling typewriters!
I've been thinking about this thread, and I actually think I'm a bit over protective.
When I was DDs age, two of us used to go out with one pony and hack for miles and miles. No one knew where we were and no one knew when we would be back. We never took an adult.
I often leave dd on the yard alone, mucking out, grooming and poo picking, we know every horse on the place inside out and she is very sensible. she has been riding for eight years and there is always someone about on the property. I'd rather she didn't ride alone, but she has done. She can't get on if there is no one on the property and she has to report in before and after.
I had a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the pony you mention being just back into work, and the field being some distance away, but your scond post clarifies the issues a bit.
I am over protective, but I've backed away recently and let dd find her feet. My best friend runs the yard and watches over her, I trust her, friend and the pony to make sure she is as safe as she can be. I actually make things worse, because I stress a LOT and dd and her ponies catch it from me.
I amend my first post. Trust your instincts.

[Callisto]

I could take issue with all of the stats you've quoted here (especially the 57% one - 57% of what exactly? 2 children a year? 10 children a year?) but I really don't have the time or inclination.

Accusing me of irresponsibility is a bit rich - you have no idea how I am around horses and how I supervise/don't supervise my daughter. I think that the OP is well aware of possible dangers, her DD sounds sensible and the pony sounds steady and good natured. I don't know any of these things because I only have what the OP has written to make a judgement and possibly I would have serious misgivings if I actually saw the DD and pony together. But, I stand by my original post and I think that you are actively scaremongering which is neither helpful nor healthy.

[Booboostoo]

Callisto: I think if you read the article you will find the answers to your questions. As for taking issue with the stats, feel free, these are academic journals you can submit your reply to the editor.

Please remember that you were first to comment on my post by calling it hysterical, so I merely pointed out that from my point of view your post/advice to the OP is irresponsible (your advice to the OP not YOU, please read what I wrote). If you make personal comments on the nature of other people's posts in a thread that is not even yours, expect the same back.

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

Not one of these reports is from the uk, or says anything other than its dangerous, really! One of them isnt even specifically about children. All are rather vague! You can find statistics to back up anything if you try hard enough! You have basically pulled out the scariest parts and used them out of context. As Callisto says, %s are only useful when shown in context.
They all basically said that helmets were rarely worn and that they should be recommended along with vests. Neither are legally required in the countries where the reports are from, whereas helmets are legally required in this country and vests are becoming increasingly popular.
We all know horse riding is dangreous, but then so is just about everything else we do in life! Ever hurtled down the motorway at 85mph with the kids in the car?
Crossed the road?
Choked on a peanut?
Yes, one child a year is killed by a horse. How many are mown down by a car on the way to the sweet shop?
I make sure my child rides and handles horses in the safest way possible. I refuse to wrap her up in cotton wool, she has a life and needs to live it.
I did suggest that the op made some changes, but trawling out foreign studies into equine related death in kids is a bit OTT!

[Callisto]

Booboostoo - you think I'm irresponsible, which doesn't bother me. But what you have written and tried to prove (by linking to a report from Wisconsin among other totally random and unverified reports) is actively trying to scare the OP into not allowing her DD to have anything to do with this pony. I'm not sure what your agenda is, and I'm amazed that you let your own children ride (though I think that is probably because you see yourself as the expert while everyone else is an incompetant idiot) but I think you have been truly unhelpful on this thread.

OP I'm sorry this thread has been hijacked by a discussion about the wider safety issues of handling horses and I really hope it hasn't put you off allowing your DD to look after and ride this pony.

[Haggydclohbatspus]

OP, can you see the field from your house, and what kind of input does the owneer have?

[brighthair]

I was bought my first pony age 11 and was fully responsible for her from that age. Dropped off at the yard and left to ride and do everything else on my own
As long as she is wearing a hat whilst riding and leading I would be happy. Also making sure that she is careful around grooming belly area and that she can read body language (ears back etc)
Fantastic opportunity for her

[happyhacker]

Just thought I'd report back in - having thought every now and again about this thread!

She is cantering him now and popping him over small jumps but she NEVER rides now without me being there. She grooms/fusses over without me and then when I turn up she rides. He is one of the nicest natured ponies I have ever met and so responsive and happy :-) Unfortunately I think he has COPD :-( as after a big groom is very wheezy.

I find it hard to believe booboostoo actually has ever ridden or allowed her children to ride - I don't know a single RL horse person who has the level of anxiety you do!

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

Does he have hay or wear a rug? My new forest mare coughs if her hay isn't soaked or her rug doesn't fit properly.
If he is that wheezy, I'd be a little bothered about cantering or jumping him. How wheezy does he get during exercise? You can get an equine version of ventolin, If it is copd.