Why are there so few grey racehorses - and why are they mostly bay or chestnut?

[mrsdenman]

Sorry if it's an obvious answer to do with breeding, descent, etc. But I have always wondered. And is it the same in other countries too (in spite of National Velvet )?

[Butkin]

Grey isn't a colour - it shows the horse has the genes which change the original colour of the horse to grey by lightening it. That is why so many dapple/steel greys go "white" eventually.

A grey horse will always have at least one grey parent. Statistically, a grey horse will produce 50% grey foals, unless he carries two grey genes
("homozygous" for grey), in which case all his foals will be grey.

Over the years not enough grey horses have been good enough to stand as stallions so gradually the colour has begun to die out.

There have been useful grey racehorses and sires - Roselier the champion jumps sire was grey - and of course Daylami was a top horse but since the days of Grey Sovereign etc there haven't been that many good colts.

Newmarket runs a "greys only" handicap race in mid August which is very popular and highly competitive.

[mrsdenman]

Thank you so much, Butkin! Today was a good day at the races for greys!

I might have to try and watch that Newmarket race. What about other colours? I think there was a faller in today's Foxhunter Chase which was black - but you don't see many of them either, do you?

[Callisto]

There is only 1 original grey sire. I can't remember his name but he was one of the original Arabian sires before the stud book closed. All grey racehorses can be traced back to him.

[mrsdenman]

Thanks, Callisto, I'll look into that. No piebald sires, then? I'm rather a latecomer to the world of racing, despite being horse-mad. Was brought up religious, so gambling strictly off limits in our house, and indeed the work of the devil.

[Butkin]

I think the greys race will be Saturday 13th August at Newmarket.

No piebald sires. There is one coloured horse in training - Angrove Rumbaba - but it is by a part bred stallion.

Black is a very rare colour in racehorses. There were no "black" horses in the Foxhunters. Of the 23 runners there were 11 bays, 7 chestnuts, 3 greys and 2 bay/browns.

The original thoroughbred sires were Godolphin Arabian, Darley Arabian and Byerley Turk. Non of them were grey so the grey gene must have come in from some original mares.

The Darley Arabian sired Flying Childers and he was the great-great-grandsire of the extremely influential Eclipse - whose skeleton is in the National Horseracing Museum in Newmarket.

Recent research found that in 95% of modern Thoroughbred racehorses, the Y-chromosome can be traced back the Darley Arabian - usually through Eclipse.

[Callisto]

It's the Brownlow Turk. He sired Grey Grantham and is alledgedly the sire who all grey TBs go back to.

[Mirage]

This is so interesting.There is a pub near us called' The Flying Childers' and we knew it was after a race horse,but nothing else.May also explain why I always bet on greys at point to points and never win.

Wasn't Desert Orchid a grey? I remember seeing him at a PtP doing a personal appearance years ago.

[Butkin]

Flying Childers was born in 1714 and was a bay by the Darley Arabian. Although only 15.2 (quite small for a racehorse) he was a useful racehorse and became a very influential Sire whilst standing at the Duke of Devonshire's Chatsworth.

As well as the pub there is a race for 2yos named after him at Doncaster.

Dessie was indeed grey although interestingly when he was born, in 1979, he was registered with the General Stud Book as a bay or brown! He was by the grey stallion Grey Mirage out of a brown mare called Flower Child. There is a statue of him at Kempton Park and he was most of the most captivating horses of the 1980s.

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

Sounds like the person who registered Dessie didn't know his stuff! Grey foals are often born the colour they would have been I they didn't have the grey gene. In one year on the stud where I worked, they were black, bay, chestnut, palomino iron grey and buckskin. After the first moult, they were all quite light grey. It's quite cute really, they start moulting from the eyes and muzzle, so they have spectacles for a while!

[CaveMum]

Hello fellow racing fans! I work in racing so it is very much a passion of mine.

Interestingly there are two coloured Thoroughbred stallions registered in Europe. Sadly neither has particularly good bloodlines or race ability but they are being offered, and are eligible, to cover racing mares.

The first is I WAS FRAMED. He stood for a few seasons in the UK and one season in Ireland before heading to France for the 2011 season. This is his old stud page from when he was standing in Ireland.

I can't for the life of me remember the name of the other stallion, but I will try to dig it out.

There is also a small number of Thoroughbreds that have spots! In my 11 years in racing I have only come face to face with 2 or 3 of these horses. Many of them appear to trace back to the stallion THE TETRACH, who stood in Ireland in the early 20th century.

[Mirage]

Thanks,it is fascinating stuff when you look into it,isn't it?

Cavemum,I have a fondness for spotty horses-my 1st proper pony was a spotty one.She was referred to as an Appaloosa,but I don't think she was,she cost £220 inc tack in 1980

[Ponders]

\link{http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricSires/JumpSires/JSimag/nicolausilver.html\Nicolaus Silver} - last grey to win the National, descended from the Darley Arabian

\link{http://www.virginmedia.com/sport/horseracing/grandnational/memorable-moments.php?ssid=3\better pic}

I was only little & really wanted him to win because he was so pretty!

[Butkin]

Cavemum - that Angrove Rumbaba (in training with Paul Midgley) is being called a thoroughbred although he is by Ricco (is this the one you're thinking of?) who is a Pinto Scottish Sports Horse by Captain Maverick (t'bred by Nureyev)) out of a pinto mare.

I'm always fascinated by the colour of racehorses like that one a few years ago with a phantom of the opera style mask down one side of his face. I also loved that hurdler Pancake who looked as it he'd stepped into tins of white paint with his 4 stockings.

[CaveMum]

Butkin, no the one I'm thinking of has only gone to stud in the last year or two. I've got his details on file in the office somewhere, I'll just have to dig them out!

[mrsdenman]

at all those gorgeous horse pics. I Was Framed is a funny looking hoss, though! I do think it's fascinating.

Gwan, show me some more...

[Saggyoldclothcatpuss]

Interesting grey fact: until the turn of the 20th century there were very few grey welsh ponies (1pm the stud book). Then one grey stallion became popular, Dyoll Starlight, within ten years, more than 50% were grey! (welsh fact not TB, but the best I could do! )

[Mirage]

Well today I bet on a grey in a maiden raceat the Quorn point to point and won! I never ever pick a winner,so was very pleased.Well done Ordelia,I like to think that my yelling like a fishwife at the finishing line helped of course.