New puppy sleeping arrangements - so confused!

[YakkaSkink]

So, the new puppy is coming home from the rescue centre on Saturday and I think I'm as organised as I can be. She'll be 11 weeks and was dumped in a box with two littermates a fortnight ago, she's still a bit shy and needs more socialisation to catch up. I've got out every book on dog care from the local library and asked assorted friends and they've all given different advice on nights and what to do.

I have a small crate as I needed something to transport her home in but she'll outgrow it in a couple of months, I have a dog bed that I thought would fit in the large crate but turns out not to (both sized for estimated adult size) and the aforementioned large crate. The options seem to be:

1. Put her straight in the large crate in the kitchen, bedding at one end and with newspaper at the other end so she can just wee and poo on that during the night (nights being for sleeping and all). Ignore crying, clean up in the mornings and focus on getting her going outside during the day. Or will this set up a habit of going in the crate?
   
   
2. Put her in the small crate in the kitchen and set an alarm to get up and take her outside every couple of hours, ignore crying, with the aim of starting as we mean to go on.
   
   
3. Put her in the small crate in my bedroom so I can hear her wake up and (negotiating flight of stairs with stairgates - really?) 'whisk' her outside to wee/ poo. Move the crate downstairs as she becomes able to hold on for the night (can't use big crate upstairs as she grows though, as too heavy to lug up and down stairs so she can use during daytimes)
   
   
4. Put in small crate in kitchen and sleep in kitchen with dog for a few nights to help her settle/whisk outside for wees when she wakes, then go back to my room and schedule a couple of midnight outings.
   
   She's obviously had a couple of weeks without her mum but I'm sure she'll be missing her siblings, so I've got cuddly toys and ticking clock and will bring bedding from the Centre.
   
   What's the best way to do this?

[Wallace]

Small crate in kitchen, alarm every few hours :)

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Our puppy is only 9 weeks and holds through the night

[morethanyoubargainfor]

Same as Wallace for me as well, I couldn't leave a dog in a crate with its own mess. This causes lots of distress for the dog that can be avoided. All I would say is when you get up to let puppy out don't switch on too many lights, don't look at dog and don't talk to her or fuss her. Save that for day time!

[1sassylassy]

Both mine went through the night from 8 weeks,would take them out about 11,settle them in their cage and then cover the cage with an old duvet cover,would then let them out about 6,neither made any mess in their cage and at the risk of sounding smug ,neither cried.

[sununu]

pup came home at 8 weeks, she has been downstairs in crate (completely covered) from the first night. dh stayed up til nearly midnight, I got up at 6 and she was fine in between, and soon stretched a bit longer. however when we did get her up she needed to go straight out the back door that second, definitely no time in transit or there would be a trail of drips!

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Dogs wont mess where they sleep. They need to learn. Aslong as you take them out last thing and first thing it will be fine.

[YakkaSkink]

Thank you for the consensus! That's hugely reassuring. I'm going to assume that I get the one that's not going to go straight through the night (have just got DS reliably toilet trained aged 6 ). This is going to sound like a silly question but how will I know if the midnight toilet breaks are necessary? Or should I just assume 2 per night to start with?

[Wallace]

I did 10, 1, 4 and morning but our pup was younger. maybe do that for a couple of nights (i carried our pup out she was so sleepy)

then start moving the 1 and 4 wake ups later by 30 mins or so depending on your pup) pretty soon the 4 am wake up will be morning and you will be down to once a night.

I fo

[anchovies]

We picked our puppy up at 11 weeks and she went out before we went to bed, we set an alarm for 2 then got up at 6. It only took a few days though until I ignored the alarm she went through til 6. The few times since then that she's needed to go she has whined to let us know.

Good luck :)

[nooka]

My puppy book gave ages for bladder control, I think it was about 2hrs for a 12 week old. We had the pup's bed set up in the room next to ours (wooden floors) took him out for a walk at 12ish and then popped him out for a pee when we heard him whimper. At first I had to sit by him to get him settled (we did a bit of baby whispering too). Then at about 6ish dh got up and slept on the sofa with the pup. I think we had about a month or so of broken nights and then he slept through with no accidents.

[YakkaSkink]

Hmm, I wont hear whimpers from the kitchen. Think I might just kip on the kitchen floor for a night or two or find a baby monitor. Thank you so much!

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Treating your puppies like babies and then in turn your dogs like humans will cause you a whole host of problems.

You will end up with spoilt, aggressive dogs who think they are the leader of the pack.

I suggest some books on dog psychology or a chat with a dog trainer.

Failing that, live a life letting your dog rule your life.

[LovelyMuffins]

Can you ask the rescue or fosterer what her/his current wee, sleep, poo pattern is? that will give you a big indication of what to expect.

[YakkaSkink]

Hi wannabe, could you explain what you mean in practical terms? I think that's why I'm confused by the advice from different quarters. Some of it says dogs are going to find it difficult to be expected to sleep alone as they naturally choose to sleep with other dogs so cut them some slack as puppies while they get the hang, others say start as you mean to go on. I don't have experience of raising puppies before, just children, which is why I'm trying to find out the right way to go about this. We are going to go to puppy classes, but they won't start for a few weeks.

[pmgkt]

option 1. let it out as late as possible last thing before you go to bed and first thing in the morning. they can go through the night and do need to learn this. and if you have paper at one end, its not like they are sleeping in it.

[pmgkt]

option 1. let it out as late as possible last thing before you go to bed and first thing in the morning. they can go through the night and do need to learn this. and if you have paper at one end, its not like they are sleeping in it.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Basically what pmgkt said.

For example, you hear puppy whimper and let him out then he begins to realise that you are at his command...when will this stop?

Puppy cries because he is alone and you go to him/he sleeps in your room. Unless you want to have your dog in your room for 15 or so years at some point he is going to have to sleep alone. So do it now while hes a whimpering puppy instead of a much louder howling dog.

You need to start as you go on. Be tough with discipline (I dont mean beat the dog) and establish yourself as pack leader from the start. Its sooo hard with puppies but you have to remember they are not humans.

Dogs are pack animals and every dogs main aim is to be pack leader. Let your puppy become pack leader and you will end up (when you try to lay down the law) with a dog which will fight you (literally) to remain leader of the pack.

Get a good book on dog psychology (I camt recommend one as I used a dog trainer) to show you the way to establish yourself as pack leader.

Hope this helps.

[YakkaSkink]

Thank you! The puppy class woman refers to pup as 'Baby', perhaps 'tis not a good sign No, I don't want the dog in my room at all tbh, I just want to get to a good night's sleep for the household asap without being unkind to the dog or sabotaging her housetraining. Will track down suitable book.

[Fraggle78]

Our hound came to us when he was nine weeks and we had him in his (large) crate in the hallway from the first night. On that first night we put him to bed and he cried, so we got up, put him out in the garden to do the business ( without any fussing or talking) then put him back in the crate. He cried a bit more then slept. Every three hours or so during the night we got up, put him in the garden again, told him to "wee" and then it was back to bed - again no talking, no fussing. If he did cry in between the alarm calls we did the same. If it was obvious that he was crying just for attention and not for a toilet trip he was put straight back to bed, so he soon realised that the middle of the night was not play time. After a couple of weeks of this we were able to go longer and longer between wake up calls.

Personally I think that teaching them to let you know when they want to go outside is a good thing and not a slippery slope to having them run the household... but that's just my opinion. Getting the little bugger to sleep past 6am was the hardest bit for us...

[Wallace]

I would rather an alarm wake me up to take the puppy outside than we woken and go running to a whining puppy.

Also if you think they are whining because they need the toilet then go in and do something else in the room first til they stop whining, then let them out

[Fraggle78]

Agreed. They soon learn that crying just for attention is pointless, but you want them to learn that they can let you know if they are desperate to go. Our dog has a slightly OCD hatred of his own wee and poo so if he does cry in the night we now know why. Vomit, on the other hand, he will happily leave for a morning snack.

[Stoney666]

We had large crate, no newspaper anywhere, I got up at 2.30/3 every morning for about three weeks, straight outside, wee, straight back to bed. Worked a treat x

[crypes]

My little Yorkie has always slept in his bed next to my bed ever since he was a tiny 8 week old pup. I did have to let him out at 4.30am every morning when i heard him moving around but that was only for a month until he learned to go out when i get up at 7am.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Yes yakka, that is defo not a good sign. Is there a different class you could go to. That attitude will get you nowhere.

To everyone else, I appreciate that everyone has their own views on how dogs should be treated. But I think your dogs probably rule you more than you care to admit or realise.

OCD of pee and poo. Come on. Its a dog.

[nooka]

I should point out (surprised no one else has done so to be honest) that the 'leader of the pack' or dominance theory has been totally discredited. It was based on studies of wolves in captivity displaying very untypical behaviour for wolves which in any case behave totally differently to dogs. Positive reinforcement has been demonstrated to be by far the most effective training method for dogs, leading to happy calm trusting relationships. I'd recommend buying Ian Dunbar's Before and after Getting Your Puppy or I've seen very positive reviews of Gwen Bailey's The Perfect Puppy. Less Puppy orientated but also frequently recommended is Jean Donaldson (especially The Culture Clash).

Not sure I'd go to a trainer that called her dog 'baby' though, but mostly because I'd find it deeply irritating.