Cesar Millan - Yeah or Nay?

[DoeEyedBeauties]

What do you all think of him? I have watched his shows and read his puppy book and he seems to make sense. We never had a dog of our own btw, it's always been the parents responsibility when we were kids - so not too sure about any method tbh.

We are looking to get a puppy soon-ish and are researching training methods.

If you don't like his method, what have you found that works?

[SnoopyKnine]

Definate Nay



link as to why cm way is dangerous

explanation as to why cm way of training is rubbish

[SnoopyKnine]

Oh whole website here on why his methods are not to be used and why.


here

[DoeEyedBeauties]

Jesus... I haven't seen those episodes where he does those things, thankfully. I'm guessing he tamed it down for his audience??
What do you recommend instead Snoopy?

[DoeEyedBeauties]

What about the whole pack leader thing?

[SnoopyKnine]

The books you were recommend on the other thread is a great place to start
Don't shoot the dog by Karen Pryor,
Culture Clash by jean Donaldson
In defence of dogs by John Bradshaw

[MiseryBusiness]

Nay, definitely, Nay.

2nd what Snoopy has said and the books in her last post are very good and well worth reading, you will never go back to thinking CM is good again!

[Scuttlebutter]

NO. Please don't. His methods are outdated and dangerous. Most people find Gwen Bailey's book "The perfect puppy" to be v helpful, and the three books recommended upthread will also give you lots of info about how dogs learn and how we can best relate to them. If going to puppy classes or training, also avoid any trainer (sadly a few still out there) who talks about you being "pack leader" or similar nonsense.

[RedwingWinter]

National Geographic has cancelled his show, so after the one he is making now there won't be any more.

[Divster]

I was taught dog training, going back about 10 years now, with ?Dominance? being the dogs aim.

So was taught

to go through a door-way first
not to let your dog look down on you from the top of stairs
to 'wall' and 'floor' if the dog stepped out of line
eat before feeding your dog
always win tug of war

I stopped going, as found it not helpful, and hard to wall my Doberman, then they put there paws over your hands, and you had to stop them doing that while walling them. It was stressful for me, and for the dog.

I have now come back to being a dog owner, to fine this all all wrong, well I knew the walling and flooring was wrong, but the rest made sense with the wolf relation on the end of my lead!

So, where can I find info to educate myself on the new ways of thinking?

ps the doberman lived till 12, and was much happier after we left the club!

[toboldlygo]

Another recommendation for the books mentioned upthread:

Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor
The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw

[diedandgonetodevon]

Nay, just Nay [runs away from thread before it goes bad]

[batteryhen]

Hmmmm. I used to be in favour of CM. However I now have a 8 month old cocker who is the sweetest thing, and likes nothing better than to sit on my feet, especailly if he is feeling a bit scared, my feet seem to offer him comfort.

I was recently told he was trying to dominate me?? I really don't think so - he especially likes to sit on my feet when I am cooking, he has done since he was 8 weeks. I end up shuffling around the kitchen like a penguin with an egg on her feet!

However I don't let him up the stairs, go through doors before me etc - but thats about manners more than dominance. I don't let him on the sofa as I am 30 weeks pregnant and don't want him jumping up on me when I am feeding etc.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

Nay here too. But I am in LOVE with the new celebrity dog trainer, Justin Silver in Dogs in the City. I want him to come and live with me and look after me my dogs all day long.

[RedwingWinter]

:)

[assumpta]

I would have thought Cesar Milan was good till I really read his book and saw Victoria's programmes. She seems brilliant! He seems to bully!

[LtEveDallas]

I talk about MuttDog and her 'Pack' but not in a CM way. I say pack in the same way you'd say a 'murder of crows' or 'school of dolphins' (although there is definitely a matriarch who all the other dogs defer to - she's the Duchess looking down on her minions and we do call her the Pack Leader!).

I don't like CM's methods but I do find dominance theory fascinating (when talking about just dogs, not involving a human pack leader, which I think is ridiculous).

Mutt is an equal member of my family. She is well trained and respectful but is not treated as a lesser being simply because she licks her own arse!

I wish I had got into clicker training when she was a pup though, I think she would have picked it up very easily. There are some excellent YouTube vids if you are interested OP.

[hugglymugly]

I'm a bit nay and a bit yeah - but that's from the perspective of watching lots of animal shows, whilst only ever having been owned by cats.

I can understand (especially from reading topics here) that the "pack theory" and "dominance theory" make no sense, and if practiced to an extreme are harmful. A bit like the typical Victorian/authoritative father-figure, where the children (and usually the wife as well) would have to do as they're told. And that's not healthy.

There are a couple of bits of his shows, though, that do seem to make sense. One of them is when a dog rushes to the door when the bell rings. That's not a good idea, especially if the dog is a bolter. When he just stands there and patiently waits for the dog to get the hint to move back, that does make sense. I guess he'd call that showing "calm, assertive energy" but I think that it's the dog being given time to figure it out for itself.

As for dogs having to be fed last - good grief, that's nasty. Surely everyone knows that dogs have a superior sense of smell, so they'd be able to smell food being prepared long before the rest of the family.

I think that what he's actually done best is to get the message across to the dog owners who don't have a clue, that dogs need exercise and consistency. I gave up watching his show, because it was the same thing, time and again, and I felt like shouting at the TV: look, just take the dog for a walk, every day; and don't send mixed messages.

So, if he's managed to get across to his TV audience that dogs need exercise and fun every day, then he might have got some couch potatoes off their butts and taking better care of their dogs.

[daisydotandgertie]

Nay, nay and nay again.

He is a good example of a bully training a dog. And one which has been cleverly marketed by the television industry. I can't think of a single positive thing to say about him or his methods.

Find a training class run by someone who is a member of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK and have a read of the books mentioned upthread.

[DoeEyedBeauties]

Didn't think I'd be opening a can of worms with this! shows my ignorance I guess I'm compiling a good list of books. Currently reading in defense of dogs.

[morethanyoubargainfor]

Another big fat NAY here as well!

Victoria stillwell, yes and the perfect puppy book is a great starting point for you.

[AllOverIt]

I have an 8 month old cocker who sits on my feet too battery!

[SilverSky]

Would. Not. Touch. With. A. Barge. Pole.

[D0oinMeCleanin]

Nay but I do, sort of, do some of the calm assertive stuff with the Devil Dog. However, it's not some magical energy nonsense. It's just common sense.

If I take him outside to do training with while he is attempting somersaults off of the walls, he is likely to be too wound up to actually learn, particularly if it's training with other dogs. So we wait, until he is calm.

However my energy doesn't have much to do with it. The dogs boredom does and the fact that he knows he ain't going anywhere until he's reeled it in a bit. I could stand there being all calm and assertive and making hissing noises at him whilst poking him every now and again or I could sit on the stairs, have a fag and MN from my phone, so long as the dogs hyper-ness is being ignored the results will be the same.

[LtEveDallas]

I found the walking to heel, stopping when dog pulls or turning and walking in the opposite direction thing worked on MuttDog. I understand that CM does this, but I was told to do that by my friend who has years of experience with working dogs (very over excited Springers!)

I think a lot of what CM does is common sense, and if he stuck to that I wouldn't have an issue with him. It's when he crosses the line (and scares dogs into submission) that I get annoyed.

[MiseryBusiness]

I though CM yanked the lead or kicked the dogs arse when training them to walk to heal?