can someone explain clicker training to me please.

[BoatingLakeDiva]

I think i get it but how does it actually work?

[oldandcrabby]

It is reward led training. The dog associates the click with a reward. Dogs are greedy. The problem is that you must reward if you click, even if you have made a mistake. It is worth practising indoors with a simple request.. Sit:click:reward. Sit: click: reward. It can be worth introducing a substitute word for the click. I use 'yes', we say 'no' too often so 'yes' is a good positive. But you could use anything - picallilli?
It does work but remember with all dog training, if it is not working, break down the task and go back to basics and build up.
Good luck!

[BoatingLakeDiva]

it sonds a bit pointless. Like training with a middle man (the clicker!). I think I'll stick to what I know

[Whoopydofoxpoo]

I've never understood clicker training - and your right Boating - its like the middleman - I could never get to grips with it .

Am I missing something - why click ? why not straight to the ' good girl' the reward ?

What does the click do ?

[BoatingLakeDiva]

sfa! Whoopy . It makes someone who patented it lots of pennies

[Whoopydofoxpoo]

Perhaps somebody could come along and explain why its better to click then say 'well done' , 'good girl'

I'm really not convinced but glad to have my eyes opened.

[noinspiration]

I think the point of it is instant communication, even from a distance, and a defined sound. A 'good boy' can sound different depending on the situation. Dogs pick up stress in your voice. We might also vary what we say (good boy, well done, clever dog etc) which is confusing. A click is fast, and never changes.

If you google there are lots of videos demonstrating clicker training.

That said, I hate clickers!

[Whoopydofoxpoo]

Yes good point - I see what you mean by tone of voice.

But what about missing the verbal bit out completely - clicker or voice that is -and straight to the reward - treat , ball , games , rub of the old ears ?

Have watched lots of clips on clicker training - drives me mad !Usually Americans training a little handbag dog - not a romping 30kg lab !

[SnoopyKnine]

Clicker being the middle man! It is definately NOT the middle man.

The click marks the exact behaviour - ready for the science.

Clicker training is the term for the training or teaching method based on how animals learn.Research shows that animals will repeat a behaviour if it
desires and enjoys the consequence eg the reward

Clicker training is a positive-reinforcement-based training. It only rewards the correct behaviour.

Clickers work so well as they are based on operant conditioning eg something good happens I get a click and then a reward. Animals will then continue to try to "set off the clicker" and will willingly give you behaviours that will encourage the click.

The clicker is a simple exact short noise that is used for nothing else but training so all animals very quickly pick up what it means.

A click is more powerful for training than a spoken word because it is not a sound heard by the animal in other circumstances. It means one thing only: a reward is coming because of what you did when you heard the click. It can be produced instantly and at the exact moment a behavior occurs. Even a very quick and subtle behavior, the twitch of an ear for example, can be clicked.
Some people use the word "Yes" however think of all the different ways and emotions you can use when just saying the word - it is not so clear to the dog/animal.

Clicker work on the simple idea of
Getting the behavior , Marking the behavior, and then Reinforce the behavior.

You can use a cue when clicker training eg say sit the dog sits click and treat, you could lure put the treat above the dogs head and click when the dogs sits or you can just wait for the behaviour.

Initially the cue word is not given when clicker training, the dog learns the behaviour and concentrates on learning the behaviour only - then a word can be added when the behaviour is learnt. This is so much easier for the dog/animal to learn one thing at a time. It will take only a few repetitions to add the name to a behaviour with most animlas.

If the dog does not give the correct behaviour there is no click rather than this being demotivating eg being told no the dog will actually work harder to give you the correct behaviour so all dogs that are clicker trained will be motivated enthusiastic and very willing!

Once the behaviour and cue is learnt there is no need to click the behaviour although if the behaviour gets a bit slow get out the clicker and the dog will immediately get more motivated and faster in his response to cues!.

You can clicker train most animals, rats, rabbit, cats, ferrets, crows, whales, soplhins, seals etc. I went to a fab seminar with Minimu and that was training chickens - within a morning they were flapping their wings on command, pecking, scratching their feet and sitting on their perches! _ if chickens can do it it is dead easy for dogs!

[BoatingLakeDiva]

thanks for that explanationn snoopy. chickens?! Now that is impressive! Your post is very informative. What I am missing then is if I wanted to teach 'stay' how would it work? Dog is sitting and I say 'stay' then click while she is? Won't she then not understand the word' stay' but think she is just getting the click and treat for sitting? I suppose the benefit is that anyone in the family can train her because we will all have the same 'voice' so to speak!
So run me through a basic command, e.g. 'down; if dog is jumping up. Would you recommend a clicker over and above vocal commands alone? I am tempted to get us one just to see how it works. When we trained our old lab she could do laods of tricks but we used a sausage instead

[Whoopydofoxpoo]

Thanks Snoopy !

[SnoopyKnine]

To stop jumping up - When the dog puts all 4 feet on the ground even for a mili second click. If the dog is used to the clicker I would throw the treat across the floor so the dog has to move away to get the reward. The dog will probably come back and jump up again - again wait for the 4 feet on the ground click and treat.

The added advantage of the click is that it is a very clear sound that will usually make a dog listen even if very excited.

I could just knee the dog in the chest when he jumps up - he would get down quicker but would not LEARN that 4 feet is good. So although initially you will get a quick result by "punishing" the dog the learned behaviour from clicker training will be ingrained in the dogs brain.

With a bouncy pup you will have to have patience BUT if you are consistent you will have a motivated willing to work dog.

To teach stay - you are right that you do not want to reward the end of the behaviour so get the dog in the position and click and treat but keep the dog in the stay position.

So if the dog is down click treat and give the treat so that the dog stays in the dog position. Initially click and treat and repeat very close together so that it is almost continuous. When you want the stay to end give a release command eg ok and walk away. Do this for 2 secs to start with then just keep the dog in the postion for longer and leave a great gap between the clicking each time. If the dog does move away just "oh dear" and walk away. Try again later. Once the dog is getting the idea you can give the cue "Stay" and build on the distance you are from the dog and the length of time. You can still click and treat at intervals but they throw the treat to the dog.

[SnoopyKnine]

Just to add clicker and sausage and lab = very motivated well trained lab

[BoatingLakeDiva]

snoopy - when dog arrives you don;t fancy moving in for a month do you? I'll provide the clicker!

[SnoopyKnine]

love to (and a bit of sausage, I will do anything for a bit of sausage)

[BoatingLakeDiva]

haha!

[tazzle]

brilliant posts snoopy

another reason for not using voice / words as the marking of the behaviour you want to reward is that we often use them at other times ..... especially yes, good girl / boy, good, etc. The dog would then be looking for a reward and not get it.

I dont use a clicker. I do use voice but its saying the letter "X" and quite a few people I know use a tongue "clock" ( which I can't do).

One advantage of clicker is that it does clearly mark the exact thing you want..... sometimes if you use rewards (good) by the time you actually get the reward to the dog even just that second or two it might have done /added something else and think that the " something else " is what the reward is for. You will probably still get the desired behaviour (eventually depending on your skill ) but maybe not as quick.

Reward based training is soooooo much better for motivating animals ( and humans) to work more and learn faster . I got into it with a previous dog many years ago as a reaction / rebellion against going to a training club in the era of Barbara ( siiiii TTT) Woodhouse and choke chains ( showing my age now). It worked .... at 6 months old my dog ws getting 99% marks in the "obedience" tests and loving doing it too !!!


whoopy ...As for it having only been seen with ickle dogs ..... I have CT even bigger animals than a 30 kg dog ..... how about a 500kg horse .

[Whoopydofoxpoo]

WOW ! -A horse !

Off to but some sausage and a clicker !

Wonder if it works with children .....

[BoatingLakeDiva]

whoopy - if it works on children I'm buying a job lot! Clicker adn haribos in hand

[tazzle]

It is a very powerful tool whoopy .... powerful enough that my horse will go through a tunnel similar to the dog ones used in agility ...... not bad for a prey animal that instinctivly fears small dark spaces


s17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/tazzle22/?action=view&current=clipoftunnel.mp4

[tazzle]

oh and the children bit ........ when I was looking around a few years back I did see some work with kids doing gymnastics... the click was apparently to mark the exact part of the movement they got right and was more effective than the coaches voice.

Not sure I would use clicker as such with people but positive reinforcement certainly works on humans too .The reason "unwanted" behaviours still occur in humans or animals is that there is still free choice ..... if the reward / motivator is not more powerful than whatever else in happening then we go do whatever else

[BoatingLakeDiva]

so, in a nutshell, would you recommend clicker training? I don't mind giving it a whilrl , i think it sounds quite effective, but I don't want to confuse her by starting with clicker traning and then moving ont something else.

[tazzle]

I do think it is a brilliant tool but I do think that anyone who uses it does have to understand the principles of learning as well as have fairly good observation and timing. Like any other method of training if you are going to do it its a good idea to read up about it and watch other people do it as well if possible ...... helps one to avoid the pitfalls and anticipate what the animals might commonly do.

Animals trained with CT can get quite enthusiastic about it as they try to get to grips with whats needed to get the reward .....and learn the rules about for example only getting rewards when it hears the click / mark. Often, at the begining especially, the dog will keep offering say "giving a paw" / sitting even after the trainer has stopped the training session.

Like anything, good planning and breaking down the tasks into small parts is good practice.



sorry .... you said nutshell


YES

and

With CT you phase out the rewards anyway as the behaviour becomes "habit" ( its not a for life, every time thing) so if you started with only one or two tasks to see if you like it I don't think there will be confusion regarding the rest of the things you do with her.

[SnoopyKnine]

I do recommend clicker training . People think it is hard to use and a faff and that you have to be really into dog training to use it. That is just so wrong. Get a clicker and just click it when the dog does what you want and then treat.

Be prepared to make mistakes and get the timing wrong your dog will forgive you!

It is fun to direct the children to do things with a clicker to get your timing right eg close a door. Just get the children to walk around a room and guess what you want them to do as they look at the door click as they go near to the door click if they touch the door click etc...

Give it a go your dog will love you for it

[SnoopyKnine]

Start with a sit

I put a hair tie on my clickers and put in around my wrist then balance it in my hand so if I do drop it it is still attached to me!

Lure the dog into a sit by putting a treat above his nose and as soon as his bottom touches the floor click and give a treat.

Some people charge a clicker up eg just click and treat so the dog knows a click means treat - however most dogs don't need that - they learn click means treat very very quickly

[BoatingLakeDiva]

i will get one then. Ebay? anyone who can recommend a good seller of clickers? are the treats in them? or can treats be any dog biscuit or food? bloody hell, I sound so thick! I'm really noT