Aggressive dog does not respond to clicker - what next?

[stumpedagain]

Can anyone make any suggestions?

The dog is aggressive towards other dogs and walked on the lead. He understands the clicker. He looks up immediately when he hears it and has his treat. But it doesn't work when he is anywhere near another dog. He will just about respond if the dog is far enough away (ie, across the other side of the field) but if the dog is within 25 feet he will not even look at me (and I am also having to control him as he writhes and snarls trying to get to the dog - not an easy task as he is very strong).

What can I do now? I feel like it is starting to lose its 'punch' as it were and I think repeatedly clicking while he ignores me makes the whole method ineffective.

[ditavonteesed]

minimu gave me some great advice about a different method which basically involves rewarding the dog by taking away what is upsetting it, so you get 25 feet away from the other dog and then you turn around and walk away, graduallly getting closer (sorry if thats not quite right), I cant remember what it is called will try and work out how to look my old threads up. sure someone moore knowledgable will be along shortly.

[minimuu]

You are way to close at the moment to the other dogs (yep I know even across a football pitch!) However you will be able to get nearer with careful managment.

Ditavonteesed has explained well the BAT - which is fab and just what you need to help your dog

It is about functional reward. eg what does you dog actually want to happen - why does he bark and lunge at other dogs and what does it achieve. I expect he barks, lunges and the other dog which makes the other dog leave him alone. away. So your reward along with the clicker will be to teach him to move away from what he is fearful or aggressive to.

So get to a distance when he is not reactive, so under threshold and encourage him to look at the dog then immediately turn away and he will follow. use a cheery "lets go command". You can click his lets go command so you are clicking the movement towards you not the other dog. If you are having to pull him then I would increase the distance from the other dog. This method will work and the more you can set up with other dog owners the opportunity to practice this the quicker your dog will get the message.

If you do this enough times your dogs new learned behaviour when he sees a dog is to turn away to you.

This is a very small breakdown of the training a fantastic book which explains it in depth, but is very easy to read is Behaviour Adjustment Training by Grisha Stewart. Fab book. link here.

I had a rescue dog that was very reactive to men, after a while using BAT the difference was amazing. The dog is now a PAT dog and goes to visit at old peoples home and is loved by men and women alike! Also a reactive collie of mine is like a different dog, he is the most reactive dog to other dogs I have seen - now going to agility classes with other dogs and obedience classes and walking with other reactive dogs weekly - it is fab training method.

If you need more explained just yell!

[BrigitBigKnickers]

Have just ordered this book on Amazon.

I have a lovely sheltie who is great with family and older relatives but terrible with my DDs friends and other young people- (tries to round them up, nip their ankles, lunges at them bites their clothes, barks aggressively) and also quite tricky with some dogs we meet on walks- sounds like this method might be what I am looking for. Thanks for the link.

[toboldlygo]

What Minimuu said - just wanted to add that I think you have possibly misinterpreted the use of the clicker, if I'm reading your post right. The click is to mark a desired behaviour and to indicate that a reward is forthcoming, so you shouldn't ever be clicking when the dog is ignoring you.

A brisk "let's go!", spin around and walk away from the other dog, your dog comes with you and doesn't react = click, treat. If the dog continues to react keep walking, change direction, silly squeaky voice to attract his attention, when the lead goes slack and he's focused on you again = click, treat. Go back towards the other dog, repeat ad nauseum. Ideally you need to catch him in the moment before he reacts to the other dog, ask for the 'watch me', click and treat, before he escalates.

[stumpedagain]

I've been using it to try and break his focus. Clicking then command. It works in other circumstances. Argh I hope I haven't ruined it. :( This is advice I was given elsewhere.

So I need to

[stumpedagain]

Oops posted too early.

So I need to click when he has already performed the desired action?

Will rethink. Dagnabbit, I thought were onto something!

Going to get that book Minimuu, thanks.

I hope we can retrain using the clicker then as he is eager to please with it when not in his fear zone (other dogs).

Thanks for the comments.

[minimuu]

I never do a watch me with a reactive or aggressive dog. My reasoning is that a dog that is highly emotional (for whatever reason)

1. will not look at you and also
   

2.the very act of stopping the dog look is actually building up the fear. If you say do not look what ever you do do not look, the imagine fear is much worse than the actual fear.

However I agree watch me is a great command to gain attention in calm situations.

[stumpedagain]

What would you suggest Minimuu? I want to distract him from the other dog. He just seems to lose all sense of anything bar his aggression. I keep receiving conflicting advice and I need to take it in hand before he ends up injuring another dog.

[minimuu]

You are too near the other dog if he is reacting.

You need for the moment to be further away and then can train the new behaviour

Limit encounters with other dogs unless you can control the distance

If you can control the distance have as many encounters as you can time and time again.

Never get cross or agitated when he reacts - just recognise you are too close and turn away to a safe distance where he is not reacting.

You don't really want to distract him from the other dog you want to change his behaviour when he sees another dog so by doing the BAT you will let him see the dogs and he chooses to do another behaviour eg turn away rather than bark or lunge.

You will get lots of "helpful" advice on how to deal with a reactive dog, from showing him who is boss, to alpha rolling him, to squirting water etc but all will fail and make him worse.

You need to change his default behaviour from bark to turn away and it really works well using BAT.

Does he always react and in what circumstances does he react. Are there any dogs he gets on with?

Do carry on using the clicker for other training and when you turn him away from other dogs - to be honest I expect he was so worked up that he didn't actually hear the clicker so no harm done -he was not ignoring it just too stressed to hear it.