Possible cruciate ligament injury - bugger

[silentcatastrophe]

Does anyone have any experience of this? Pup dog is not yet 2 yrs, and has been given some anti inflamatories and bedrest and an appointment next week.

[WhereTheWildThingsWere]

Too much experience, is a bit of a bastard, sorry.

My Stafford partially tore his at 14 months (this was many years ago) at the time the prognosis for surgery was a bit iffy so I elected to treat with rest and anti-inflamatories when needed, he had good spells and bad spells for the rest of his life.

My friends Rottie completely tore hers at age 6, she had surgery, rest and god, whats swimming in water therapy called? That (sorry brain dead, up all night with poorly ds). Made brilliant recovery, still sound at 12.

Friends Stafford cross 13 months, partial tear in both legs, poor baby, have been trying to treat with rest and anti's for months and months, have given up and will be having surgery, looking at a year for recovery .

Generally I think unless you have a very quiet dog and household and can pretty much crate rest your dog then resting does not work and it is better to push for surgery, otherwise you just set yourself up for months of ups and downs.

Arthrititis (not spelt right) is pretty much inevitable in old age.

[silentcatastrophe]

Oh fuckety buggerdy fuck. This household isn't especially quiet, and although we have a crate, our old bitch has monopolised it. Pup dog is in our bed at the moment and I'm going to join him. He'll leap out like a spring.

[Lizcat]

If conservative treatment is to work it needs to be total rest no jumping on and off furniture, no climbing stairs and no works and on a lead in the garden. In dogs below 15 kg I have only every had to send one for surgery the rest have healed with rest. 15 to 25Kg some have healed with rest some have had to have lateral fabella tie surgery. 25 to 30 Kg dogs straight to lateral fabella tie surgery. Dogs over 30 kg down the road to the orthopaedic surgeon as most do the second knee within a year and they get either a TTO or TPLO surgery.

[Joolyjoolyjoo]

WAs coming on to say pretty much what lizcat has already said

Some of it does depend on breed/ weight/ age of dog, and whether the tear is partial or complete.

If your pup is insured, I'd say go get an opinion from an orthopaedic surgeon anyway- I would if it was my dog. Ruptured cruciates are bread and butter to these guys, and they will be far better placed to give you options and pronosis. They are, however, pricey.

[silentcatastrophe]

It is very hard to keep Toby quiet. I will put him in the camper van, his alternative luxury kennel. He is going back to the vet next week and he will have spent a week on NSAIDs, so hopefully the vet will be able to establish better what has happened. He is bored still,poor thing. I have a feeling it might be more of a partial tear, but then I'm not a vet and could very easily be wrong.

[iloverhubarb]

I'm leaping onto this thread as all info already included relevant - and I wonder how Toby issilentcatastrophe?

Lola also nearly two, a lively springer, we've had nearly a year of on/off lameness, mainly L hind leg, now in the R. Both cruciates are torn. Vets have done conservative treatment/rest till now, but just had a referral to surgeon, and TPLO surgery recommended, for both legs. Surgeon recommended ops within two weeks of the other. (We trusted surgeon - thought very good - but will go back to our vets now just to talk thro' all options).

We are taking a few weeks to reflect and research, but have now got to the stage where we feel surgery probably the best option to give her good quality of life for the many years she hopefully has ahead.

The cost is huge - £2.5K per leg estimated. This will not all be covered by insurance unless we do one op now, one when the next insurance year kicks in in Sept. If we do the two ops soon and in quick succession we'll have to find around £1.5K which frankly we haven't got! Guess we'd take money out of the mortgage if we decide much better for a) Lola and b) our sanity (one recovery period).

So, anyone with any experience, especially tips for recovery period, whether TPLO the obvious best option for a 15kg dog, anyone who can tell me it's OK to do this - seems such an invasive and traumatic procedure for a dog to cope with.... Oh yes, and has it actually resolved problem/been successful?

[EasyToEatTiger]

I know someone who's dog's legs cost thousands. Why can't both operations be done together for the insurance?
Toby is fine, and leaping around again like a nutter, so we were lucky. Could you have one op in August and the next in Sept or something?

What a real bugger for you and for Lola. I'm sure you can negotiate something. Your vet might be able to think of a way of making the operation into a single claim, or your insurance company might (ok, ha ha) be kind. It must be very hard to have a young energetic dog who has to keep calm.

[iloverhubarb]

Hi Tiger or is it Silent, glad to hear about Toby. Can't do op on both legs at same time - they need to be able to get up and walk fairly soon after the op I think, and that needs one goodish leg!

Will need to talk to the vet re our options - Petplan will pay for both if we do aug and sept, but more I think about it more it makes sense to do soon as I work in a school. Long summer hols soon means I could take the time to look after her. Think I'd better start my own post tomorrow rather than grabbing yours! It's going to be shit afterwards for months whatever we do!

And back to Toby - ignore if irritating but - be wary of ball throwing, leaping in air, mad football type feinting - Lola has been absolutely fine and energetic between occasional bouts of lameness over a whole year, but has suddenly been a little bit lame from time to time.

[EasyToEatTiger]

Dur. I hadn't thought of that. A 2 legged dog isn't going to get very far. Toby leapt out of our bedroom window today. Bloody dog. I just saw a streak of black racing out of the gate. We have had to be careful with our eldest about throwing balls etc as she has crap hips. I think we need to be a bit more careful about balls generally. Toby in particular moves at some speed.
2 recovery times does sound a bit grim. Hopefully when it's all done, you will be able to look back at it all from a better place.
A few years ago I was laid out in hospital for a month. After that, my legs wouldn't carry me. It was really quite shocking to find myself unable to stand!

[AkhalTeke]

My springer / collie x had this, treated with rest and restricted excercise, was lame on and off for months, now 100% sound.

Careful to prevent jumping just in case, and give glucosamine sulphate in food to guard agains t arthritis.

Our vet said surgery can make things worse, and they will tend to get arthritis anyway with or without surgery.

I wonder if vets aren't often too quick to operate - the poster above who said it was a vet's 'bread and butter' had a point. Isn't it just a sprained ankle, after all? We don't usually operate on those in people, do we?

[EasyToEatTiger]

It's worse than a sprained ankle! There are 2 ligaments holding the knee together in an X shape, and with this kind of injury one of them can be snapped, so basically there is nothing to hold the joint together and it slides about over itself. Our eldest now takes a supplement which I think is helping her a bit. I don't know which is the best. I have heard good things about Yumove. I may try the old girl on that next. Probably should have started years ago.