Teenagers and the Police - is this acceptable?

[TheFutureMrsClooney]

Have a lovely group of 14 year olds, boys and girls, staying here tonight.

They've been to the beach as they do most weekends in the summer and on the way down the police took all their names, addresses and phone numbers and searched their bags.

None of them were drinking, smoking or taking drugs. The police said they knew they were meeting friends there and that there had been complaints already of rowdy behaviour. Odd, given that there are no houses nearby.

One of the boys asked a policewoman for ID and was asked, "are you going to make me go back to my car?"

I accept they have a job to do but feel a bit peeved that the kids can't go anywhere without someone assuming they're going to cause trouble.

[GypsyMoth]

i agree.....

[BCBG]

Ok, this is what you do! Make a careful note of the time of day/night the children were stopped, and where. The police have been given extra powers to prevent large youth gatherings on beaches, etc, but have to be careful how such powers are exercised. Then, tomorrow, attend your local police station and make a formal, recorded complaint about the fact your group was stopped, and ask to be contacted immediately by the senior officer in charge. You are entitled to be given an explanation.

[scurryfunge]

If they were stopped and searched then the Police would have to make a record of the search and explain the grounds for doing so.

Where is the record of the search? If not given at the time,then apply for the copy. They can only do a blanket stop and search if they believe there is going to be major disorder.

There is nothing to stop Police asking people to account for their presence, etc but they must record certain details.If they are searched a full record has to be made.

[funkychunkymunky]

The problem is that someone was probably causing trouble hence the reason why they were stopped. Police aren't psychic and don't know whether it was your group or not.

Look on the flip side - if there was bad behaviour that you reported and the police tipped up, looked at a group of youths, did sweet FA then got back in their car and drove off what would you be saying??? The Police never do anything. A big group of youths went past and they just ignored them blah blah blah...

If someone has reported criminal damage or anything to do with drugs etc and your group match description - description usually being "a group of youths aged 12 - 16" then all matching groups need to be checked. If they didn't check every group then wouldn't that be discrimination???

And yes, you can apply for a copy of the search any time in the next 12 months. This will include the reason that they were stop and searched.

Oh and if there has been any violence in the area it is possible that there is a section 60 in place in which case the Police would not need a reason to stop and search ANYONE.

[AnyFucker]

I think that was ok, tbh

My dd, 14 was walking from a youth club with a big group of teenagers the other week

They were stopped, and their names and addresses taken by PCSO's who were friendly and explained the reasons why they were doing it

I don't have a problem with it, and I encourage my dd to comply politely

Apparenty there had been some trouble the evening before

Only people who have something to hide would object, IMO

[ThatVikRinA22]

the police have the power to stop and search, but they do have to identify themselves (they dont have to show ID if in uniform but do have to say who they are and which station they are working from) they will have had to do a stop search form, a copy of which will be available upon request.

i see nothing wrong with this. there is no grounds for a complaint. this is a police power and as long as its not abused and the group were searched lawfully then there will be no grounds to complain.

[ThatVikRinA22]

*there ARE no grounds.....grammer! whoops!

[scurryfunge]

I think the question Vicar is whether there were grounds to search.....being a youth on a beach is not grounds in itself.

[dizzydixies]

am with funkychunkymonkey, vicar and anyfucker on this one

[scurryfunge]

Only if they fitted the description of the youths responsible....there is also a difference between rowdy behaviour and criminal behaviour.....don't believe youths should be criminalised because of their age.

[dizzydixies]

I'd prefer to know if my 14yr old had a stash of vodka in their bag or worse frankly

the stuff that police see kids doing these days is horrific and frightening all at the same time and if this can be prevented then it should be

if they weren't doing anything wrong then why would it matter, my DCs will be brought up to respect the police, where possible and unfortunately there are all too many these days who don't with the full backing of their parents

[ThatVikRinA22]

i know scurry - but im assuming there were grounds. the officer searching has to state the grounds for the search, so im sort of assuming there has to have been one! i do it by the book, so no spurious complaints can be made.

[dizzydixies]

today a colleague saw a 13yr old boy getting grounded for getting his 14yr old gf pregnant last sat a brilliant local playground was set on fire by a group of youths who had smuggled drink in their bags down to the beach - we had only been playing there at 7.30 pm as it was a beautiful day

unfortunately the innocence of youth can no longer be guaranteed and its up to the police to try to help and preserve whats left of it

sometimes in the job officers are damned if they do and damned if they don't

[scurryfunge]

Yes , I just worry that not every officer abides by their powers...hopefully everything is above board and no one is abusing their powers, otherwise it does nothing to instill confidence in the Police.

[TheFutureMrsClooney]

Phew, thanks!

I accept that the police have a job to do but think that the way they do it is actually alienating kids, however, I can see how they struggle to get the balance right.

We live in a village with a population of mainly elderly people. They seem to believe that teenagers have no right to live here.

I would not allow my kids to join the groups on the village green because it's surrounded by housing and it's not fair on the residents.

The beach is a long way from any houses and whilst I would be livid if mine were drinking down there they can never go there without the police turning up. There is nowhere else for then to go - the last bus back from our nearest town is 6pm, the cinema is 40 minutes by car.

They both know they can bring friends back at any time and we often have groups of them staying over the weekend. I suppose this is just a wider rant about the way kids are labelled.

I'm also a bit concerned about the need to take names and addresses - why do they have to provide them? Is the assumption that this will stop them doing anything wrong?

[stripeyknickersspottysocks]

I guess it may not stop your DC doing anything wrong if they're good kids but for other children knowing that they police have their names and addresses may be a deterrent.

[scurryfunge]

They don't need to provide names and addresses if they are not suspected of committing an offence.

If there are grounds to search, then the record still has to be made and if the person does not provide a name and address, then a description of that person will be recorded instead.

To be honest taking names etc is about gathering intelligence about who is out and about and who is associating with whom. Police will often telephone parents of youngsters to check parents know where their children are, so I think that is good practice as it's about safety.

[LollipopViolet]

What do they USE the names and addresses for?

FWIW, if I or my mates were stopped, I'd have no problem as long as it was explained to us why we were stopped eg, there's been some trouble in the area and they're just warning people they're watching. Although we're never on the streets in big groups and we don't have beaches being landlocked, but you get my point. As long as they're polite to me, I don't mind. Even if they weren't I wouldn't cause a scene.

I just don't get the names and addresses thing.

[Fleegle]

Assuming there have been reports of trouble, they will keep the names and addresses so if they need to attempt to identify any drunk, semi-concious or injured teens later and contact responsible adults, they can do this.

If the Police are polite and explain why they are needing to search, then there shouldn't be any need to make this a big issue.
The Police do a really difficult job- and just because your perception may be that your teens are 'lovely', the Police are not psychic. I expect your group are ok, but lots of parents are in complete denial about the anti-social behaviours of their youngsters.

[EarthMotherImNot]

Ds, a grown man BTW, was stopped by the police yesterday because he was acting suspiciously.

What, you make ask, was he doing?

He was waiting at the end of our road for his dad who he knew would be coming along at any minute.

His pacing back and forth drew their attention it would seem

[dizzydixies]

would you rather then didn't stop and ask? what if he'd been waiting to snatch a child who had been sent to the shops on their own/trying to work out which of the houses was the secret woman's refuge? waiting to see when the neighbours were going out so he could break in and steal their new tv etc etc

if he's not doing anything wrong I don't see the harm in him speaking to them - they were only asking

once again with the damned if they do and damned if they don't

[violetqueen]

I think we all know that much depends on the attitude of the police and how they do it .
Tone of voice ,manner .
If asked by teenagers for ID why respond with a "are you going to make me go back to the car " ?

[nancydrewrocks]

violetqueen quite right! To respond to a reasonable request for ID with that comment is aggressive and inflamatory. Why do it?

The police are only permitted to stop and search if they have a good reason. It is inappropriate and unlawful for the police to stop and search an individual based on their age or the way they look (or indeed on gender, race etc). So unless they maintain that, for instance, the kids fitted the description of someone who had committed a crime in the area then they may have been acting outside their powers.

Your DC were under no obligation to give the police their name's and address's if no offence has been committed and should not have been intimidated into doing so. They are also entitled to have the Police officers identify themselves to them (this does not require the production of id if they are in uniform but their name and badge number should be provided)

They should have been given a copy of the form that the police are required to fill in when a stop and search takes place. If this was not done request a copy in writing from the police station.

You can also make a formal complaint to the police station.

Frankly I find this sort of behaviour by the police so counter intuitive as to be ridiculous. Put at it's highest the behaviour they were hoping to prevent was a bit of "rowdiness" and as a result of their heavy handedness they risk not only alienating a group of well behaved youngsters (for whom that might have been their only experience with the police) but also irritating their (I presume respectable parents). Way to go - what a fab bit of community policing!

[nancydrewrocks]

Anyfucker it is bollocks that only people with anything to hide would object.

My ex bf used to be stopped at least once a month by the police. He drove a BMW. He is a lawyer. He is black. He didn't have anything to hide but by the time he was stopped for the 10th time in a year did he object? Of course. Did he have anything to hide? No.