I would not ever evict one of my children if they were only 14.A child needs to be unconditionally loved and supportre by thier parents.

I have a very similar situation with ds1, also adopted. He is hanging around with a really bad crown, been expelled from school, is fasciinated by drugs and has on a number of occasions left and slept rough. He is 15. It is as though he wants us to kick him out so that he can justify all his behaviour, and convince himself and everybody else that we don't love him. I have contacted social services but - mainly because I am worried about him sleeping out - but they won't intervene because according to them he has a "safe home". Sometimes I think if I kicked him out, then they might help!

To answer the original question, I think we may be coming to the point where I have to choose between him and my two younger children. ds2 is terrified of him. We can no longer leave ds1 alone in the house so I am a prisoner in my own home, only able to leave if dh is home. Last week I left him on his own for less than 10 minutes, and came home to find a man I didn't know in my house, and a smell of burning cannabis.

At what point should I kick him out?

He is vulnerable, he has Asperger's Syndrome, he is angry, he has been suicidal and I love him with all my heart. BUT my house is not safe for my other children or for me. At some stage I will have to make a choice.

By they time they get to be teenagers they know just what buttons to press. I can imagine getting so wound up about the place being trashed that I might escort them to stay at a friends place. What I can't imagine is not wanting them back when I'd calmed down. For that I think it would have probably have to be repeated violence.

"She has taken to telling SIL that she can't tell her what to do because she is not her real mum" I absolutely expect DS to trot this out at some point. Thats not the point, when you sign up to adopt its the real deal our children being vile to you doesn't negate the responsibility you took on.

The drug abuse could possibly be genetic or at least a predisposition to it.

I think I might have DS move out if he were unreasonably violent to anyone important who lived in the house not just sibling (ie me or a partner as well) lodgers/boyfriends can sling their hook but family memebers have a right to feel safe in their own bed.

Difficult to judge until you've been there I guess but it does sound like she really needs someone to stick by her in some form.

Family futures have a great reputation for helping where adoption are at risk of breaking down but I have no idea how easy it is to get councelling/advice from them. SS should know.

I know it sounds awful, but if she got done for shop lifting, she'd get a YOT worker who are very helpful (had personal experience of this situation and the 'help' you get).

Even if you can't have her with you, could you maybe contact her social worker and offer to support her even if it's just phoning people who don't respond (we got our Vicar to do this on behalf of my young lady) and maybe meet her every so often for a coffee so she can feel not everybody hates her? She'd probably like to help with your 3 year old as usually people that don't feel they've been loved like children as it's unconditional.

I know your SIL is probably scary (sounds it) but she's adopted for life and adopted that girl into her family. That's you!

Got to go. DS home from Granny's. Will check back in later.

Hopefully DN will have contacted me by then.

Noddy - that's the one strange aspect to all of this. Friend's parents haven't been in touch with SIL at all. That would be the first thing I would do if my child turned up with a friend who had been asked to leave home.

I don't know - her peer group are a fairly "feral" group and it is possible that friend's parents don't actually care to find out.

Or she is not staying there - which is very very worrying.

I have been calling her today but she has not answered her phone.

She likes me. I am "cool" aunt.

slightly, thanks for response.

Hostels here don't take under-16's. She would need to be accommodated by Social Services - foster care/children's home probably the only option.

She already has a drugs worker which is good.

She needs to be loved and looked after without all these awful conditions attached.

What is the friend like that she has gone to stay with ?Could her parents maybe mediate?

Agree Hecate.

She has really struggled to understand why she was adopted and is fascinated by the drug culture (mum was heroin addict and HIV+). She has taken to telling SIL that she can't tell her what to do because she is not her real mum. I know that must be very very hard to hear but surely SIL should understand where all this anger and hate come from?

I would offer to have her here, but am 38 weeks pg and have a 3 year old. Only 3 bedrooms. PLus I think SIL would be furious if DH and I "interfered". I find her quite scary!

I was going to flippantly put 'murder' but not even that. Basically, harm other people and if that happened, I'd make sure they got the right care.

I had a male friend who had the same situation as your niece. He lived with various girlfriends, did more drugs and the last I heard was in prison. His adoptive parents never seemed to bother, the moment he didn't do what he was meant to, they chucked him out. Makes you wonder whether their lack of love (or stability) is what made him be like that.

Can you help your niece in any way? Have you tried looking for a hostel that will take her? I know there are good ones who will help with her problems too.

I think it is particularly sad given that she is adopted, she is going to need support to avoid feeling that she has been rejected by 2 sets of parents

(I realise that people who have their children adopted do so for various reasons and it isn't necessarily 'rejecting' them, but from her pov that is probably going to be what she'll feel)

SIL/BIL have basically decided that SS/professionals have nothing to offer in terms of help and support.

I don't know how to help.

AMum - SS have been involved in various ways for years. DN was adopted age 2 years and they have tried to offer support over the past 3 years, since her behaviour started becoming more extreme.

I think SIL is quite childish too and has labelled DN/is unable to walk away from an argument/is unable to take advice.

I am so sad for my niece. Feel that at a time when she needs most acceptance and understanding she is being rejected.

.I think I would ask for help before it got that far but we are all different.I know a similar girl was actually wondering if it was her and it is so sad to see.She is too young to be cast aside like this a child is for life unless they do something violent with extreme consequences

SIL has apparently gone to talk to SS today. I believe she plans to tell them that she won't take DN home.

The straw that broke the camel's back was DN taking a load of friends home (after being told not to) and things getting a little trashed.

Not great but the reaction seems completely inappropriate.

I think I agree Hecate - there would have to be real abuse/violence between siblings before I could ask a child of mine to leave home at that age.

Assuming this isn't aimed as a "wake-up call" for a single night, I can't think of anything which would make that a reasonable way to deal with a vulnerable teenager. If SIL can't cope, then she should speak to SS, maybe arrange a short-term foster to give them both some space to deal with the problems.

try to murder my other child, or abuse them.

Apart from that, I can't think of anything that would make me turf my young child out, and even then, I'd hand them into the care of ss not onto the street or to a mates house.

My SIL has evicted my niece. Taken her key and let her go and stay at a friend's house.

DN is 14 years old, hard work, very vulnerable, has some mental health and drug issues. She is no angel, but she is also a lovely girl (when she wants to be) with a lot of baggage around her identity (adopted). I like her alot.

I used to work with homeless teenagers and cannot think that it is ever reasonable to abdicate responsibility for a teenager just because they are bloody hard work.

What does MN think? What line would have to be crossed to push you this far?