thebody - how lovely to hear of dcs actually working during a gap year and not swanning off for a year "travelling" like most of them think is their right!

my attitude is not to sweat the small stuff - and this is mainly small stuff. The teenage brain is different and they are programmed to a different time pattern (seriously, I've read the book).

If I'm in bed before them they musn't wake me up. They can sleep in as long as they can manage and I'll even keep quiet until after 10a.m as long as they keep quiet when I'm in bed. They may have to get their own breakfast.

One of my friends is fond of saying "what did your last slave die of?" when he thinks they ask too much - feel free to use on teenagers expecting breakfast to be made .

Mumonthenet - sounds a brilliant plan. Would you mind popping round here tomorrow and doing the same?

estar and everyone else - interesting posts.

I think it's true that it's not a good idea to leave them to totally self-regulate. Perhaps one of the advantages of giving them lists/responsibilities is that you are also giving them tools with which to learn how to self-regulate. It's about learning how to life-balance, which after all they're going to need in the future.

DD1 did a month long work experience last summer (at 16). It was extremely hard work and she was completely knackered. I was glad when she finished and could have the next month off, but it was also a great insight for her into the real world out there! And she saved enough to buy herself a good camera, not much but still a payoff!

So now I'm thinking:

Communicate my needs in terms of household help without turning into martyr/screaming banshee.

Get dc's to volunteer for chores on my list for duration of summer holidays.

Specify chores which are to be done by a certain time each day, and others which are flexible.

Agree with dc's a time when computer and tv will go off at night. (I'm still not sure how to impose this one with dc3 who's only 12 and thinks she's entitled to same privileges as elder siblings!)

totally agree with Huff.. I did this as a teen and my kids did too.
They are now 19, and 18. Oldest has just completed a gap year of WORKING full time, not wandering round the world wasting our cash and is off to uni in September with lots already saved.
Number 2 is also going to do this and both have worked part time from 16.
Feel as long as school work and assignments are in on time and they DONT MAKE A NOISE when we are trying to sleep its fine.
Wish i was 17 again....

luckily ds has a paper round, so it is only sundays that we have the sleeping all hours, last sunday we couldnt get out of the house til really late.
however the novelty of the paper round might wear off, it has only been a couple of weeks, come the summer holidays.

Good luck, Starkadder. Teenage years seem a long way off for you but I don't know where the time has gone. Having said that, I absolutely love this age - great conversation and company.

I get to be a step-granny this year so it's going to be interesting to see whether my DSS is as strict as I thought he was!

Boden - see what you mean - and totally agree that it's important to say what you think rather than do the whole martyr thing.

I think I will have to wait and see how I react when my baby is a teenager..! I suppose that it is possible that my "ah, just let them lie, they only have this chance in life" attitude may dissipate somewhat, haha

I suppose I think that the most important thing is respect and consideration - and if consideration to one's parents means getting up at a reasonable time, because that's what's important to them, then teenagers should be old enough to start learning that.

Starkadder - yes, lovely though it was to lollop (and I'd like to now, too), I think it probably didn't help me appreciate what it was like for my parents who worked full-time then came home to see me sprawling on the sofa (I was very well read, though ). Also, I was hopeless as a flat-sharer in later life cos I had no idea how to do anything. I probably didn't sleep beyond 10 whereas DD1 would happily stay in bed till 1pm (and does when I'm not around). I think they sometimes use staying in bed as an excuse not to pull their weight around the house.

I do think part of bringing up children is trying to produce an adult you're proud of and consideration for the people you live with is part of that. At 15 and 13 I think it's reasonable to expect some help and I insisted on the same when DSS was their age. I try to get my girls to do their bit and think I might adopt some of the other ideas on here - lists in particular - so I don't turn into a perpetual nag. I remember reading an article by Nigella Lawson about her mother's martyred act and I was aware of my own mum having one - I don't want to blight their teenage years by doing the same thing. It doesn't achieve anything and just makes everyone miserable.

Funnily enough, we also live in a very tall house and part of the difficulty of getting DD1 out of bed is negotiating a narrow, windy staircase to her room!

It's interesting that this started off as a thread about sleeping late but there's all sorts of connected issues - the fact that they need more sleep, helping around the house, staying on MSN all night etc.

This is an interesting thread.
Boden - am interested to know - do you mean that you think it was a bad thing that you were allowed to lollop (brilliant word btw) around reading all day?

My baby is very little still so I have no experience of parenting teenagers, but I do remember keeping those hours myself. I'd still like to go to bed late and get up late and then lollop around reading all day now (although not AS late) but I can't - I agree with the poster who said that it's the only time in your life when that timetable is really OK. Carpe diem & all that.

However, that said, we lived in a very tall house, so my mother slept quite far away from the living room, and we weren't likely to wake her with the TV/nintendo ;-) Certainly, I think teenagers staying up late should be considerate and helpful - they shouldn't be crashing around waking you up and they should pull their weight with tidying up/washing up etc.