I no longer know what to do with my daughter, 21 ....

[alysonpeaches]

I know she isnt exactly a teenager but she still behaves like one, so I couldnt figure out where else to put this.

I cant tell this story quickly, but I'll try. My daughter (2nd child of 2) gave us a lot of trouble in her teens. Although she has always been quite quiet and introverted, she was always in bother at school for not doing coursework/not turning up to detention etc. At almost 16 (during GCSEs) she became pregnant and went to live with her boyfriend.

To try and cut a long story short, she was found to be neglecting her son and there were other issues with the father, so my grandson came to live with me when he was 2. Daughter came too, got pregnant again. I am raising both her children now by court order, until they are grown up. They are 2 and 5. She walked out on the children when the youngest was only 4 months. She kept in contact most of the time. At Christmas she argued with her BF and moved back in for a few days. Then went back to him. We didnt hear anything for 4 weeks then she came back with belongings.

She is now living with us. She has never had a job or been to college, although I have given her lots of encouragement to do this. We never know how long she will be here for and its upsetting and unsettling for all of us. BUT I am desperate to get her away from the BF because he is really bad news (cant go into it).

I am torn between laying down the law eg you get a job or go to college if you want to live here ... but I need to know she is safe because I feel she really cant look after herself, so I darent drive her out. She isnt a girl who you can have a good chat with, she remains introverted, almost to the point of me suspecting she has autistic spectrum tendancies. She has two close male friends, claims to be platonic, but stays over with them sometimes. She has given up her female friend after a fall out. So she has really nowhere to go.

What would you do?

[bogie]

I think i would make her get a job.
and just really try and make her see what she is doing to the family and her kids.
ask her what it would have felt like if you bought her up like that.

[mumeeee]

I agree with bogie make her get a job.

[alysonpeaches]

Now when I have just suggested this, or college, she has said there's nothing she wants to do. At one point she had a half arsed idea of setting up her own business making jewellry, went on a business course and applied for a grant, but nothing came of it. I pointed out she would meet people, but she says she didnt like the people at school and didnt talk to them so she didnt see the point.

I dont honestly think she has the confidence or the life skills to get a job, but thinking back to my first job, if she got the right one it could be the making of her.

How would you approach it? Bearing in mind that over the years she has stored up lots of excuses for not getting a job.

[GrapefruitMoon]

What is she doing for money at the moment? I have to say I am a bit at her saying there's nothing she wants to do... does she not feel any responsibility for earning some money to pay for her children's upbringing? Is there some reason why she can't get an "ordinary" job like anyone else her age??

[ggglmpp]

Is there someone in the family that she could go stay with and do some work locally or something - such as someone who knows someone who has a shop or restuarant or dog kennels or whatever, where she has something to go to and someone and somewhere stable to come home to, but she has some independence and it gets her away from her bf.

If it is any consolation, my 18 year old (19 this year) is being utterly vile and I literally threw her out yesterday . She yelled and sobbed about how I was putting her on the pavement like a tramp, but I at least knew that she has lots of friends and people who she can stay with. I had just had to break the circle of conflict. It was when she said "yeah, whatever" to me when I had tried to be reasonable and explain something to her, that I saw red and went ape and told her to go. I don't think she believed me.

I also took back her phone and laptop that we had given her; she removed the sim from the phone as she passed it, thinking I would not notice. I think when the sim no longer worked, half an hour later, she realised I was not joking.

I do feel terrible not having her here, but the constant crap was really getting me down - it really is like having a shite marriage/being on verge of divorce with a miserable teenager or young adult. Of course she will come home, but on my terms and not as the negative force on the family that is currently going on.

I wonder if you could give her a boost and yourselves a break at the same time, whether you could change your relationship with her.

Hope my garble helps.

Hats off to you for taking on your two grandchildren!

[LadyOfWaffle]

Hmmmm... it's hard. I was in and out of mums from 16, was really really pushed through my A-levels when I was really depressed (she wouldn't acknowledge it) and it just resulted in what I would call a breakdown. I don't think she should be at yours, being a bum and you def. don't sound like you are pushing her - somewhere there is middle ground. Is she depressed? How long has she been out of work/education? It can be hard to get back into the swing of it. You've propbably asked, but is there anything she will do? 2 hours a day somewhere? Just to get started. I wouldn't go down the "go to work or you can't stay here" route... I am not sure how much it would help, at the end of the day you can keep (sort of) an eye on her in your house. Just sounds like there is no enthusiasm - maybe get some jewelery making books out of the library for her to look through to see if that sparks anything back up?

[GrapefruitMoon]

ggg, sorry to hear you are having problems again with your dd - thought it had improved for a while? How are you feeling now - was it mastitis? (Hijack over!)

[ggglmpp]

Yes, I also thought it was over - this is the big dd who should really know better. She is a quasi Paris Hilton at the moment. I want to shake her and to send her on work experience to Darfur.....

Still have headache and dont feel brilliant but am functioning and am much better, thank you. On positive side, have lost 3 kgs since friday

[GrapefruitMoon]

Hey you need to keep your strength up if you are BFing - break out the chocolate!

[GrapefruitMoon]

Is your dd working or a student still?

[alysonpeaches]

GrapefruitMoon on Wed 27-Feb-08 12:22:49
quote What is she doing for money at the moment? I have to say I am a bit hmm at her saying there's nothing she wants to do... does she not feel any responsibility for earning some money to pay for her children's upbringing? Is there some reason why she can't get an "ordinary" job like anyone else her age??

She is getting jobseekers. She and her boyfriend have done this since they were 16 i.e. 5 years. At no point have the DWP made them take a job. Fortunately I have an allowance for the kids from our local authority and I get the usual tax credits etc. She doesnt seem to see the need to give her children money because everything they have had has been paid for by someone else.

I think she would find it difficulty doing an ordinary job but that doesnt mean she couldnt. She has poor social skills and found work experience difficult.

I dont feel as if I can make her, but I think she should work or study.

[alysonpeaches]

ggglmpp
No one else will have her. My mum and dad and my MIL and FIL both think I should either throw her out or make her work.

Lady of waffle
She doesnt seem depressed, but she is just the same as she as always been. Keeps herself to herself, bone idle, doesnt do anything round the house, spends all her time sleeping or on the computer. If I ask her to do something she either has an excuse, puts it off or goes to bed. If she does it it is a one off and a half arsed effort.

[Wisteria]

I think it sounds as though she either needs a swift, hard kick up the jacksy or some therapy to be honest.

[alysonpeaches]

We have tried with the therapy. We got someone to come out and assess her in her teens. She turned away from them and wouldnt speak. They couldnt continue with therapy because she wouldnt interact.

Also when the children were going through the court thing, she saw a psychologist and a psychiatrist for assessment. They didnt think she had a mental illness, just thought we was like a very immature teenager.

[alysonpeaches]

I feel like such a failure as a parent sometimes. I think I must have been to easy on my kids because my mum was so strict with me and I couldnt wait to leave home.

But I have a son, 25, who is a graduate with a good job who was independent from becoming a student at 19. He lives with a girl who is a teacher. He also worked p/t from being 16. So he is nothing like his sister. Obviously I ask myself time and time again, why did she turn out like this?

[Tiggiwinkle]

You mention you think she may have autistic traits-have you pursued this feeling at all? I have a 19 year old diagnosed with Asperger's ( and I srongly suspect my older two Dss who are in their twenties are also AS but have never been assessed). Do you think your DD could have
Asperger's? If so, it can be extraordinarily difficult for them to work because of the difficulties they have relating to people amongst other things. Do you think you could get her assessed?

[alysonpeaches]

It is possible, as I know a bit about Aspergers. How I would get her assessed I have no idea. The local authority is obviously no longer interested.

[alysonpeaches]

BTW Thanks everyone, keep the messages coming. Im taking the little un to the dental hospital now and will be back later!

[Tiggiwinkle]

Sorry, cross-posted. You would need to get her seen by a pxychiatrist with a knowledge of As I think. It is only just becoming recognised that girls can present quite differently to boys with the condition. As teenagers, kids with Asperger's can be very immature-my 19 year old behaves like a 13 year old at times!

[Tiggiwinkle]

I think you would have to go through your GP. Unfortunately it is much more difficult to get assessed as an adult than as a child. You could try contacting the National Autistic Society-they have a helpline and could maybe suggest where you could go.

[mellyonion]

hi....;.i'm really sorry to hear of this difficult situation you're in....you must be run ragged.....

your grown up daughter sounds like she has had a bit of a hard time....her self esteem sounds pretty low......you mentioned about the jewellery...how about an adult class...2 hrs a week? of jewellery making. it may be a small start into giving her some "good" attention and maybe starting to build her confidence a little...

also, how about a kind of get away from it all, few weeks away with a charity project like the princes trust? its the kind of sink or swim survival instinct...it could be the kind of thing to allow her to find her feet with life.

maybe when you speak to her you could suggest a modified reward chart...she has to do jobs around the house...that way she is making a small contribution to the daily grind, and then she could choose her treat after ticking of say twenty tasks over the week....you could have some mother and daughter bonding time...girly trip to the cinema..her film choice??? or inviting her boy mates over for pizza...your treat? that kind of thing.

tbh, i would not want to push her away by insisting she get a job..she doesn't sound socially capable at the moment, but i do think that its not unreasonable to ask her to complete set duties in the home....no matter how small.

hope my witterings have given you something!!!

look after yourself.
x

[HonoriaGlossop]

It's very difficult to guess via mumsnet isn't it but it really does sound as if she has at least some asperger's traits! Good advice from Tiggi, I think your first port of call would be the GP.

Obviously as she's now an adult, it will have to be coming from her.

Perhaps you need some serious chats with her where you basically withdraw your consent to her carrying on living the way she is under your roof. I don't know whether you would have to threaten 'throwing' her out or whether just talking between you and her knowing that you hate how she currently is would be enough; but basically I think I would be saying either she gets it together in ONE way, eg Job or training, OR she will need to get to the doctor to start to investigate why she can't cope with the adult world.

[alysonpeaches]

Tiggywinkle. I do wonder though, if I did get her assessed and she was actually labelled as aspergers how much further forward would we be? I doubt that she would comply with the assessment or the therapy anyway, if any was possible. Thanks though.

I have suggested time and time again a short evening class on the jewelry front, even found details. But she says she knows how to do all the stuff they do - she taught herself. It is possible because she has books on the subject and bought a lot of jewelry making stuff when she lived with me before. She wanted to actually set up an internet business with the jewelry, went on a course through the DWP which gave them the skills to make a business plan and apply to the Princes trust for a grant.

Unfortunately she did this with her ex BF and now they have split up I dont know where its going or if its been turned down, because she wouldnt talk about it.

I dont feel in my heart of hearts its the right thing to push her away by insisting she get a job. I think if I did she would just go back to awful ex BF who is even worse at taking care of himself than she is. He cant even be bothered to get up and sign on. I think the getting a job thing is just something I pick up from other people: its what they all tell me to tell her to do and because Im at a loss I wonder sometimes if they are right IYSWIM

[GrapefruitMoon]

I think that if she genuinely can't cope with the world of work then it would be reasonable for you to expect her to help out a lot in your home while she lives there. And tbh, it is not doing her any favours if you don't - she needs to be prepared for independent living at some stage. I do realise that at that age many people are fairly oblivious to the work that is needed in maintaining a home - I probably was at that age! So she probably needs it spelled out to her. Is there someone else in the family who talk to her about this so it doesn't seem like you just nagging her?

[alysonpeaches]

HonoriaG Thank you for the phrase "why she can't cope with the adult world." That just about sums it up. I think I am going to give her another few days to get over this latest break up with BF (he keeps phoning a lot etc). Then I will try and have a talk about her 3 options: job, training, or doctor.

We have been saying for years that she doesnt live in the real world. She is seriously into these role playing games, either in person or on the computer, and thats how she interacts with her two friends, via these games. It all seems a bit weird I know.

Sometimes I think I am too close to the situation to see what the way out is.