Neice Hell ... Sis at her wits end

[Tillyboo]

Lord, where do I start ?
I'll try & keep it brief, but it's going to be hard ...

My sis has two daughters, 12 and almost 15. She is now divorced from her husband after being separated for 7 years.
The girls seem OK with this situation and see their dad as frequently as they like although they choose to stay close to home most of the time as they like to see their friends. There is about an hours drive between the two homes. They stay with their dad every other weekend.

Youngest dd has always been sensitive, self conscious, fussy, lazy and prone to outbursts of temper. She has even hit her mum in a fit of uncontrolled rage.
She sounds terrible I agree, but for a good deal of the time, she's a good girl.

The elder daughter is much more level headed but she has hit the lippy, sarcastic, defiant stage and she can be truly horrible to her mum.
Neither girls will help with keeping the house clean, leave rubbish all over the place, dirty washing, dirty cups and plates etc. If my sis asks them to tidy away, they generally kick off and complain that one is doing more than the other.

My sis can suffer from bouts of depression and has been in tears frequently with their behaviour and tried to explain to them how it makes her feel etc. She has even been on her knees sobbing, begging the youngest to go to school when she has refused because her 'hair doesn't look right'. FOR GODS SAKE, what the hell is going on.

Sis has tried the tough approach (well, as tough as she can manage), the grown up talking them approach, every bloody approach actually, but the girls just don't show any respect for her at all. It doesn't seem to register that she's so unhappy, upset and emotionally exhausted by the behaviour sometimes.

We have even gone to a councelling session with the childrens mental health people. I'm sorry if this offends anybody but they were hopeless and just said it was probably all due to the marriage break up. They have never followed up and have basically left my sis to deal with it all.

I'm not asking for an answer as it's not that simple but I'm just wondering if anyone can offer any advice on how my sis can deal with her girls. They are not like it with me or my parents so they CAN behave !

My sis had really bad flu for about 2 weeks recently and the girls didn't even make her a cuppa.

I'm thinking of writing a letter to them as they just clam up if you try and talk to them.

Also, are there any support groups or other avenues my sister to explore to help her ?

PS : No good suggesting the dad gets involved, he encourages unrest and enjoys winding my sis up. He thinks it's funny that my sis has problems with the girls. He's run away from it !

Sorry for the length of post.

[CarGirl]

what priviledges do they have, she needs to use these as leverage.

In short you need custy to help you out with ideas.

Basically they earn the right to have mobile phone, computer time, pocket money etc etc

Your sister somehow needs to assert herself back into a place of having respect.

[yogimum]

tillyboo, my sis is going through something similiar, and she's pregnant, teenagers and a new baby. She left their father last year so I think the whole change has affected their behaviour. Their father is no help either. I think withdrawing privileges is a good start.

[Carmenere]

How about your father (or mother) giving them what for? I agree in the long term your dsis has to take bake control and respect and that will involve taking their privledges ect but in the short term a really strong, humiliating lecture from their grandparents might help, particularly if they represent stability and authority in their lives. Not making their sick mother a cup of tea when she is very ill is frankly disgusting and they need to be made aware of the fact that they are turning into people who are just not very nice. And that the result is that they will only attract not very nice people into their lives and will be treated badly by them.

[Tillyboo]

Thanks for replying. Yep I agree completely. Sis can generally do that with the elder daughter, the youngest is a totally different kettle of fish however.

Sis knows she should take away priviledges but the fallout from dd2 would be like WW3. Sis knows that it'd take a couple of weeks for the message to sink in but I don't think she is mentally or physically strong enough. Plus she holds so much guilt for splitting up the family.

I'd do it, I'd love to do it. In fact I have told the girls if they don't change their ways they will be coming to live with me.

My sis has been in a dangerous place & last year had terrible thoughts about ending things as she couldn't cope any more. So for her it's not so black and white.

I want to help but am at a loss as to what to do or say.

[CarGirl]

perhaps do offer to have the girls, or just the younger one for a while to give her respite.

[yogimum]

tillyboo, my sis threatens her girls that she will send them to me if they don't behave.

[Tortington]

she really cannot do anything if she hasn't got the strength.

i cant advise on how she would get the strength

she just cant give in
she is matriarch

she has the money
she has the power

she is giving it away and she needs to take it back - but i dont know how.

with strength* she should tell them to go to their rooms. take away tv mobiles and refuse to give them money
drawn up and cellotape to the kitchen door a rota of chores - divided euqlly between the three of them.

if they give her lip - send to room

if ww3 occures where much screaming at mother occures to point of meltdown - i suggest calml walking into kitchen and throwing glass of water over said child.

if child hits mother - mother must call the police - these things do not go without consequences and she may find that she recieves support from outside agencies.

if said child refuses to go to school - mother should phone police and tell them that child refuses to go to school.

my child on continuing behaviour such as this - would end up with nothing but a bed and books in bedroom. i would have the radio turned on and remove the plugs from every tv computer hair straightner and hair dryer.

all make up would be thrown away.

and all could be earned back weekly on being nice to mum

your never too old fora star chart btw - never! i use a flip chart for some areas of work and on occasion have to bring it home- time 2 years ago we had huge flip chart paper whioch consisted of the kids names accross the top and chores down the side - if chores were done they got some spending money for their holiday - if they couldn't be arsed they didn't

the strength came in when laziest child ended up with 5 euros a DAY less than his sister and brother and we bloody well stuck to it.

similar thing can be enforced - chores done for that week earns back the fuse for the straighteners.

she need s to get her head straight and make some serious threats that she carries out to regain her power as matriarch within this family of girls all jostling for position - its very basic animal shit - and i bet your arse mother lioness wouldnt brookt hsi shit!

[Tillyboo]

Custardo - I would do everything you suggest. I will show my sis your suggestions and try and talk her into putting at least some of them in practice.
Without any support at home, I'm sure it's more difficult.

I like the 'throwing water over said child'.

Do you work in this field or is it through experience ?

many thanks and thank-you to you everyone for replying !

[colditz]

I am with Custardo here. Your sister has got so used to providing all that she has forgotten that things like hair straighteners and mobile phones are a priveledge, and can be taken away.

If daughter refuses to go to school, ring the school and ask them what they want the mother to do.

If daughter hits the mother, the mother should warn her she will call the police or throw a litre of cold water over her.

I am with the money for chores thing - and would urge your sister to be strict as strict can be about it.

Could you have the 12 year old for a week so your sis can work on the 15 year old?

[iwantacoolchristmasnickname]

also remind your sis:

when one or both dd's threaten to call Social Services cos Mum's thrown a glass of water over them,

hand them the phone and say please do it - Social services will take the kid into care not the mum!!!

(not sure how accurate this is but usually shuts them up)

So sorry for your sis and hope she'll manage touse some of custy's advice, even a tiny bit...

[Tillyboo]

Thank-you all so much. Some really good advice and support !

[Tortington]

no dont work in this field har de har - i have 3 teenagers

my dd wants to buy her friends xmas presents she has to work off the money through chores - needless to say it was lovely to come home to spotless kitchen this evening.

[Tortington]

oh and all my kids are bigger than me i am a mere fart at 5'2 so i chucked the water upwards! the key when doing that is to keep calm. chuck the water then say " how dare you speak to me that way get to your room" and sit down. all trez calmly

[1dilemma]

oh custy I hope you will still be posting these wise words when mine get to teenagers v

[1dilemma]

oh and Tilly good luck to your sis she really needs to do this! for the girls sake as well as her own

[Tortington]

mine will be grows up and i will have joined gransnet and talking about all my spare disposable income

[Tillyboo]

Hi Custardo - What happens when you chuck the water ? Don't they retaliate ? I don't think for a second my sis would do that for fear of the repercussions. I'd do it in a flash but they are not my children.

As a start my sis is coming round this weekend as the girls are at their dads and we are going to sit down and devise a rota, list the privilidges and work our a plan of action.

It's heartbreaking for her and I can't imagine how she must feel. It's strange because the girls tell her they love her and are all over her when they are not being awful to her. They even apologise more often than not after an outburst ... so why do they behave terribly sometimes ?

I'll let you know how things progress but in the meantime thanks all for the advice and comments.
x

[colditz]

They behave terribly because they are teenagers, and teenagers are physiologically selfish - they have less empathy than the average nine year old, and that is a proven.

[Tortington]

well my daughter just stood there shocked. its nmore humiliating that anything else.

my kids wouldnt touch me - if they did i would call the police.