Been told today that dd needs a clinical psycologist referral!

[notsofarnow]

DD today went for an orthopaedic appointment because she has had knee problems for over a year now. In the holidays she twisted it and fell down the stairs so has been on crutches since.

He has said today that there is nothing wrong with her knee beyond normal teenage growing pains - which can be painful but not to the extent that she is saying.

Consultant thinks it is because of other things going on in her life (so basically attention seeking)

Thing is it is probable that this is the case. Her Dad has always used pain and medication to get attention - even if negative attention.

I just feel lost as a parent. I don't know what to do for her. I feel i'm left sorting out the legacy of what her Dad is/has been.

If I take her crutches away then she'll say I don't understand and that she is trying and everyone thinks that she is just putting it on anyway.

If I leave with them then she is never going to get off them.

Why is this parenting thing so hard? I can't cope anymore.

[Twiglett]

just because the pain is not physically produced does not mean that it is not there

of course you don't take her crutches away

you get her referred to a psychiatrist and get good counselling, potentially cbt which will give her the tools she needs to fight this pain

calling it attention seeking reduces it to a conscious manipulative act IMO

I will bet that the pain is very real to her

it is difficult, you can cope if you accept that it is not a failing to need help to work things out and that a psychiatrist can help .. but you can't .. she needs a counsellor

what scares you about this?

[Twiglett]

it is also, very unfortunately, true that the medical profession do not take female complaints of pain as seriously as male complaints

there are women I know who have had to wait 20 years for a diagnosis of ankylosing spondilitis (a potentially crippling arthritic type condition) .. 20 years .. because doctors don't take their complaints as seriously

I assume she has had x-rays and blood tests etc before ortho arrived at his decision

I would start by believing in her pain .. and see what the psychologist says

[CarGirl]

alternatively she could have a rare condition such as Reflex sympathetic dystrophy (RSD) or complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), is a chronic, painful, and progressive neurological condition that affects skin, muscles, joints, and bones. The syndrome usually develops in an injured limb, such as a broken leg, or following surgery. However, many cases of RSD involve only a minor injury, such as a sprain. And in some cases, no precipitating event can be identified.

My friend went through this as a teenager, her parents were told it was all in her mind etc blah blah blah it took them 10 years to diagnose it despite the fact that she had ALL of the symptoms whereas most sufferers only have a couple of them.

Basically your body perceives pain where it shouldn't.......

[kiskidee]

please be aware that at any one time 20% of teenagers is suffering from one form of mental health issue or another. of course some more acute than others. the ortho was saying something that a lot of medical people wouldn't and he may be enlightened in order to say so. Please don't see his recommendation as a judgement on your parenting but as an opportunity to find out what is the problem with your dd. her gp is, i think, the best person to go to for a referral. and if you are being sincere that you feel like you can't cope anymore, you may also want some help for yourself too.

I don't normally answer these sort of threads because i find them so deeply personal and i'm normally afraid of saying the wrong thing or it comng out the wrong way so i hope you don't find my ideas patronising or worse.

[notsofarnow]

What frightens me is that she has taken pain killers for so long and I see a copy of her father who has recently disclosed that he has been a codiene addict for 11 years and this is so the route I do not want her to go down. She already says that the pain killers do nothing.

Again what frightens me is the fact that he said that if he refers her then they will write back and say that ther eis no funding and could take 18 months - 2 years for appointment.

She had xrays today but no blood tests.

Any help is greatfully recieved.

I'm currently doing a assertiveness parenting course and feel such a failure because all of us are single parents so what does that say about single parents and ability to cope and control thier children.

I know i'm stupid in saying it but feel its all my fault.

so maybe this is all my problem and not hers.

[notsofarnow]

having just looked at the rsd site I don't think its that. yes her pain is like a burning pain but she doesn't have any changes in the skin colour etc, neither is it sensitive to touch.

Oh I don't know so so hard to know what to do wiht these teenagers.

[Twiglett]

a simple blood test can show whether there's any inflammation in the body through esr (or Sed) rate .. that is not a conclusive test .. you would get a positive reading for having a cold, I am rather surprised that this hasn't been done as a matter of course

but then inflammation would tend to be tender to the touch

don't suppose you'd have the money to go privately in the first instance would you? can cut through waiting lists

[CarGirl]

I don't think RSD is that easy diagnose that is why it is often not diagnosed IYSWIM I know females who have hyper-mobile joints are also more prone to it (over men and those without hyper-mobile joints)

[notsofarnow]

She does have hyper mobile joints as I do.

What do you think going private for? The clinical psychologist or another orthopaedic consultant.

She says its not tender to touch unless she wakes in the middle of the night with it and then when she rubs it it feels like its burning inside her knee.

[CarGirl]

Say you are happy to be referred to psychologist but ask CRPS/RSD be ruled out as you don't want anything rare to be missed.

I've had acute knee pain throughout my life - random often at night, they don't know what causes it probaby my posture, they insist that it's not damaging my knees - it often occurs after a lot of walking or if I run it's excrutiating have to take pain killers to get back to sleep (on a par with toothache) - was always told it was growing pains, errrr 20 years on I've probably done more damage through being fobbed off! Drs don't have all the answers it's a very tricky thing to call.

HTH

[shinyhappytonks]

Just wanted to give you a big (((hug)))

Don't worry about the number of single parents at the assertiveness course - all that shows is that you are a good parent and are looking for some/guidance support, which we can all do with sometime during our life. And that you have the courage to do something about it - good for you

Wishing you all the best

[kiskidee]

meeting only single parents at the course says nothing about single parents. I know that if i didn't have dh I would lose my rag with dd simply because i would not have someone to give me a break.

it is hard when you are responsible for all the cuddles and all the discipline.

[Anna8888]

On the assertiveness course - of course it's harder work to be single parent and you need far greater strength of mind and purpose to achieve the same goals as two parents working in concertation. Well done for going to the course.

On the psychologist for your DD - take all the help you can get and don't think it reflects badly on you. The good, positive thing to do is to take up on offers of help when you need them - we don't all arrive in this life knowing what to do. The clever thing is to recognise that other people know things we don't and to use their knowledge to move forward.

[jesuswhatnext]

dont worry about the 'single parent' thing, the important thing is that you care enough to go on the course in the first place - i know plenty of 'trad families' who could do with a bit of outside guidance!, if only they could see it!!!

[MrsMarvel]

I should accept help from Clinical Psychologistas a formality but don't stop looking for other diagnosis

You say it stems from Dad's painkiller addiction - ask him to pay for private physiotherapist. He's the hypocondriac/ munchausen victim so he will understand!

Addiction to painkillers - real possibility to be aware of. Be vigilant on her intake of drugs.

If you really believe there are psychological issues make sure she has an opportunity to tell you about them. Give her time and space to talk.

PS - Well done for doing assertiveness classes!!!

[notsofarnow]

she's much happier today - physio told her she is going to refer her to the multi pain team consisting of psycologist, gp, physio, pain specialist (i think) She also had her on the tread mill and has concentrated on retraining her brain to use her leg properly.

She says she cried herself to sleep last night because the consultant said she was attention seeking.

she read what i had wrote on here.

[tigermoth]

Have you thought of seeing an osteopath about your dd's pain? I have not gone down this route yet, but it is something I have looked into.

My son (13) has complained of knee pains for the last couple of years. We have been to the GP countless times, been referred to hospital for tests - nothing conclusive. Apparently it's very common in boys of his age. This time last year my son was missing about 2 weeks a term due to pain. I did not know if it was attention seeking or not. I started a thread on it on mumsnet and got some very good advice, especially about osteopaths.

The reason I have not done more with this is at the moment, my son's pain seems to be less - or he is complaining of it less. In his case, we agreed that if his pain was too bad for him to go to school for a day, it was too bad for him to play cricket or football for that day nd probably the day afterwards.

In his case, his desire to play sport has had a positive effect. He has stopped complainig as much and rarely misses anything because of knee pain. I still do not know how much knee pain he has, however. It does give me lots of moments of angst.

(I am sorry I can't do links but if you do a search under my name and add 'knee' to the search details, you should find the thread I started on it, if it's of any use to you ).

[notsofarnow]

Tigermouth thanks for that. I think I know that the pain she has is what a lot of teenage girls and boys have. I think her problem is the way she deals with pain and the way her Dad has always used pain in the past.

She is so much more positvie and not using her cruthes in the house since physio on Tues so i'm really hoping this physio has given her the will and the know how of how to start using that leg again.

Have also got her some help for her GCSE welsh so hoping that boosts her confidence as well.

just been to a presentation/ reward evening for school and she got two music awards so al helps I think in the general feeling better frame of mind.

[gess]

Whilst waiting for the NHS appointments to come through could you explore alternatives? Agree about the osteopath or also if you can get a good recommendation a homeopath. The reason I say that is because they treat any pain/symptoms as being real even if there is no physical cause. They take the symptom at face value. As others have said even if there is no physical cause (and I wouldn't necessarily trust a consultants opinion on that without extensive testing) a good one will provide a very good counselling session as well.

[gess]

I'm not sure that last post made sense! Have seen people have good results though.

[notsofarnow]

xdh used a homeopath for undiagnosed pain and had good results.

[redclover]

I have Complex Regional Pain Sydrome & can fully support what CatGirl has said. It is real, is hard to diagnose & is not fully understood. You should look at the British Pain Society website (lots of info incl. suggested reading) & ask your GP to refer your daughter to your nearest Pain Clinic ASAP.

Pain clinics are experienced at assessing / diagnosing & if CRPS is diagnosed they will provide a 3 tier approch to treatment - physio, drug therapy & CBT.

The condition makes most sufferers depressed & feel very isolated. If treated early enough real improvements can be made so please don't delay.

Meanwhile it will help you both if you leave aside any ill feeling towards her father & any doubts you have re whether the pain is real. This will be hard but it will enable you to focus on the facts which will in turn get you closer to finding a resolution.

Good luck - contact me again if you think I can help/give you any info you may need.

[ShowOfHands]

Gosh this is an old thread. Wonder if the op is still around and how her dd is?