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How to handle lies re AS results?

29 replies

AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 15:47

My DS1 is 17 and has just got his AS level results. He came home after collecting his results but didn't have any paperwork with him. He said one of his friends had them in his bag and he'd forgotten to get them back.

He told me that he'd got three C grades (He dropped maths a couple of months ago so only took three exams) and these grades were good enough to carry on and do the A Levels. I said it was important to get the certificates back from his friend and he said he would. Anyway, days later still no paperwork so I asked when he could go and get it and he said he'd ring the friend. Still no paperwork. He then said he couldn't get hold of him. I said to DP half jokingly "Next he'll tell us he's on holiday." As predicted, he's on holiday! I asked DS1 if he was being honest about his results and he said he was but the excuses for not getting the certificates home aroused my suspicion.

Anyway, today I received a letter from college stating that DS1 does not have to attend on enrolment day and that they'd like me to come in for a meeting the day after enrolment to see if they can find a course for DS1. It said that by now I would know that his results/attendance mean that he can not automatically progress into the second year. If they offered him a place then it would be on a probationary basis and he'd be reviewed by the Principle monthly. At the bottom it said "I would also suggest that X investigates employment or courses at other colleges and schools in case we are unable to offer him a course in September 2010."

I phoned but could only talk to someone in the exam department as they won't be fully staffed until next Tuesday. She told me his results were not all Cs as DS1 had claimed. He got a C for media, C for drama and a D for English.

Not sure what to do. Last year was awful with letters arriving monthly complaining about late coursework, not being fully equipped for lessons, not turning up for lessons, messing around in class. Each time he had an excuse. He said their system was slow and that the issue had been resolved, the teacher was mental, they had him confused with another student and various other reasons why we should just ignore the letters.

We went in for a meeting and he admitted that he wasn't working as hard as he could have been but promised to turn over a new leaf. I asked the teacher we had the meeting with not to send any more letters home as they just caused upset as DS1 denied all responsibility so was pointless. She said she'd keep in touch via phone calls and DS1 signed an agreement to attend all lessons. I thought things were fine now but having received this letter today they're clearly not.

DS1 isn't here today and won't be home until after 10pm so I can't talk to him about this yet. Today I've swung between anger and tears. I'm furious/upset that he lied about his results and that he had a place for next year. I can't go through another year like last year and feel that it's time he got a full time job and moved out. We've had money go missing and have to lock our bedroom door. He's rude and only talks to us politely when he wants money or a lift or something.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and how they handled it. Please don't suggest we all sit down and discuss this as it doesn't help if one person round the table won't be straight down the line. Also, not helped by him saying "This conversation is over" when he's asked a direct question he doesn't want to answer.

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DinahRod · 27/08/2010 16:13

They're not startling results nor terrible ones, but they're not going to take him to uni for a startlingly academic course.

So is he, like a lot of yr 12, going to retake? If so then a specific uni course in mind with specific grades might get him motivated - uni applications happen as soon as he goes back. Going to open days might help in this respect.

If he can't be arsed about retaking then he needs to be totally realistic about what is available to him - e.g. maybe a practical based course or even apprenticeships. Relevant work experience will also help.

Increasingly we are babysitting sixth formers, emailing parents whenever they don't meet a deadline. I'm not sure it does them any favours in preparation for going it alone post 18 but knowing college and you are working together might stop the lies.

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DandyDan · 27/08/2010 16:24

We've sort of been where you are: except our son's results were worse, but the college was okay to take him a second year. He didn't pretend about his results either, but he had not worked for most of the first year, fibbed about results, homework, attendance, skiving off several days because he hated one subject.

I do think it's important to sit down though and talk it through, with your son being able to freely confess whether or not he is interested in putting any effort in. He also needs to know his chances of being able to improve his grades - two C's are good for a start. If not interested in continuing with his education, the expectations are a little grim because jobs and apprenticeships are not easily come by. Our son really bucked up in his second year and realises just how much he had screwed up, and he then worked harder (though still not as hard as he might have done). He has now managed to get himself to a minor university to do the course he was interested in and is pretty relieved, I think, to be honest.

The more contact between yourself and the college the better. Our son's college was very distant and we only knew he was having trouble late on in the day that first year.
Also, if he wants to improve his grades and seriously wants to try, he can re-take in January and even later again if those are no good. But applications for re-takes have to be in very early on in the Sept.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 16:39

DinahRod - Thanks for replying.

Small update : He phoned DP this afternoon and DP said he sould get home as soon as he could as we'd had a letter from college that needed discussing. DS1 said "Oh, if that's about an interview, loads of people got one." DP asked him why he didn't tell us about the interview and DS1 just avoided answering. DP didn't push for an answer, instead asking him to get home asap.

I'm not sure he'll want to re-take but would do if we said we wouldn't support him for another college year if didn't. I know he wants to stay in college as it's a cushy life but I also know he won't do the work. When he dropped maths (Without telling us) he was given a two week course to do which he didn't complete until we received a letter (Groan) asking him to come in for 2 days of the Summer holiday to complete it. He just won't do anything unless he's being chased and pinned down.

Would it be wrong to say we don't want him to go back to college or must the decision be his? Honestly, I just want the college to say they can't have him so the decision is taken away from us.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 16:51

DandyDan - Thanks for your reply. What a relief it must be that your son got a Uni place!

As for letting him freely confess whether or not he wants to put in any effort, we've done this. I've said countless times that if he really doesn't want to do the A Levels he doesn't have to. At the meeting (Like you, it was late in the year when we really got to the truth of what was going on) the teacher told him that she thought he was just there for the social aspect and didn't think he was prepared to do any work and he said he was and also signed the agreement promising to knuckle down.

The college just keep giving him chances. They issue threats that they don't carry out. He was told that his books had to be returned before the Summer holiday. He didn't return them. We received a letter (Arghh!) saying that unless he took the books back when he collected his AS level results he could not return to the college for his 2nd year. He didn't take them. He "Forgot", despite me giving him the letter and being reminded! He said it was ok though as the college has said he could bring them back with him when he starts again in September. < sigh >

I remember being told by a health visitor when DS1 and DS2 were small that you should never issue threats that you weren't prepared to or couldn't carry out as it sets a precedent. He now knows that what they say they'll do and what they actually do are two different things. This is not a good life lesson.

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nottirednow · 27/08/2010 16:52

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 16:53

I should also add that he wants to be a film director and was last year getting excited about Bath Spa Uni and Reading Uni.

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nearlytoolate · 27/08/2010 16:58

Oh my, the number of underachieving 18 year old boys I know who have ended up doing film studies at uni...(still, I guess it is good that there is something that might motivate him!)
I suppose if the college won't follow through then you will have to.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 17:00

GCSE's were ok NotTiredNow but we had a hell of a time getting him to do the coursework. He was actually put into isolation for two days to get his English coursework done. He didn't tell us though. I found out at Parent's Evening. I phoned him from the school and he said that the English Teacher was lying! Angry I'd have put the English teacher on the phone had he not have been with another parent by then.

He has a job, which is where he is today. It's not regular though but he has shifts during the holidays and the odd day at the weekend during term time. It's just pocket money pay though but it pays for credit for his phone (And alcohol and cigarettes) which we won't pay for as we feel that's a luxury.

I wouldn't send him to the council. I was thinking that we'd support him while he found a full time job then after a few months in said job we'd help him find a flat share or a room in a house to rent. I left home at 16 and coped and he'll be 18 in eight months so it's not like he's a young teen.

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DinahRod · 27/08/2010 17:02

The universities he wants to go to wont take him with those grades nor without evidence of his interest in the subject. He needs to be producing film and be heavily involved in performing arts, beyond just the production coursework he does for media. And relevant work experience is so important in that field. Otherwise he is deluding himself. You don;t want to be in the position of funding some light-weight, bums-on-seats uni course that leaves him unemployable in a sea of of other arts students.

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nottirednow · 27/08/2010 17:02

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BecauseImWorthIt · 27/08/2010 17:10

Just to give you a bit of positivity - DS1 achieved CCC at AS level (as well as an E for one subject which he was dropping).

He took re-sits in most of them and this year, for his A2s achieved AAB.

So it can be done! It's very dispiriting when/if your school/college insists on giving your AS results as their predictive grades as it kind of makes them think there's no point in working any harder.

DS1 worked harder this year - but I can't say it was a huge amount harder - but the AS results were obviously a kick up the bum for him.

Re the sullenness/lack of conversation, if you find the solution to that, please let me know!

Good luck. These years are, I think, actually harder than when they littlies.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 17:15

DinahRod. I know they won't take him. He seems to live in a Disney style world where everything has a happy ending. "You don;t want to be in the position of funding some light-weight, bums-on-seats uni course that leaves him unemployable in a sea of of other arts students." No, we absolutely don't but this is what we see coming and feel we can't just drift along dancing to his tune and paying for the privilege.

Nottirednow. We haven't sat down and looked at Uni courses with him, I thought that would come with this new school year, but he looked at Unis in the last weeks of college and liked Bath Spa and Reading. I was really pleased that he found two he really liked and thought they'd be the carrot on a stick answer to getting him to do some work. It may be too late now.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 17:20

BecauseI'mWorthIt ~ A A and B is great! The teen years are much harder than the baby (no sleep), toddler (Argh, he's got his finger in the socket, again!) years. They were just practice! I have a 14 year old son and a 4 year old son too and I'm so relaxed I'm almost comatose as far as the 4 year old is concerned.

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LJS666 · 27/08/2010 17:22

I went through much the same with DS1.

He constantly skived, lied/bullshitted about college. I felt like I was drowning under a stream of letters concerning lack of effort, poor attendance and incomplete coursework.

I pleaded with the college to keep him on and asked that the Senior Tutor stay in touch with me via email.

The lying is very, very irritating, I felt like he thought I was an idiot to believe his BS.

I can't say that he picked up much but he did get BBC in his A Levels in the end. I think he got it on sheer brain power rather than any diligence.

He has changed completely since leaving college and I think he just hated it and is desperate to get to Uni. And we get on well and love each other but are sick to death of living together.

I did say to him, "it's OK if you don't want to continue education but you'll need a live in job, like being a barman or a cook - that would be quite fun".

I do think that boys are much, much more immature than we expect and it is like a toddler with a mouthful of chocolate saying he hasn't eaten the swwets.

I think the college is probably trying to put the frightners on and will probably let him continue if you assure them you will put him under the thumb.

I just thought to myself, he can't be trusted and checked everything, drove him to college when I could and checked his bag and treated him like a 3 year old. Very, very irritating for me but I think my DS1 was much more immature than I expected.

I paid for my DS1 to resit most of his AS Levels and that helped with his UCAS points. I pointed out to him that I was very pissed off at the extra expenditure and I expected it to be worth the cost.

Older teenagers are just massively annoying and a lot of it is a case of "can't put an old head on young shoulders".

On a positive note - I feel we've got through it and he is off to Uni next month. He has largely stopped the lying and seems to be growing up, slowly and painfully (for me)!

My advice would be, let go of what you expect he should be able to do - he obviously can't manage himself yet and nag the shit out of him until you get him off to Uni.

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LJS666 · 27/08/2010 17:25

I laughed at the "teachers are mental" comment.

According to DS1 most of his teachers are mental, pathetic or astonishingly stupid.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 18:05

I know what you're saying LJS666 re nagging. We swing between nagging the socks off him and just leaving him to it. I'm so angry about the lying and stealing. I hate having to lock doors because he can't be trusted. I hate having to question (Mostly to myself as he gets ridiculous if you question him. Slamming doors and smashing things in his room) everything he says. Just can't face another year of it.

I'll just have to hang fire until Tuesday I think as far as making any decisions go. Obviously I'll have to talk to DS1 about it but I know he'll tell me it's a standard letter. Just can't understand why he lied when he knew the college would contact us at some point. No doubt like his English teacher, they're lying or just plain bonkers.

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LJS666 · 27/08/2010 19:35

ALTrouble - I know what you mean, I hid my handbag in so many different places I used to forget where it was. The lying is just insulting and so boring.

I think this late teenage phase is a million times harder than toddlers because they look like men but are really about 12 in their heads.

I think take a lot of deep breaths and remember that the end justifies the means. I assume you would rather that he goes to Uni than works in a pub (or whatever) - just nag, pretend like he's 12 and expect nothing. Lower your expectations of his behaviour about 100 notches, act in your head like he's 12.

Personally, I think my DS1 was secretly terrified of becoming independent and leaving home and was subconsciously trying to scupper his chances at every step. I'm a single parent and couldn't imagine trying to coordinate this with a partner. Could one of you be "in charge" of him (all without his knowledge) and the other deal with the rest of your household, finances, other DCs etc.

I tried just leaving him to it and I felt like we were playing "chicken" with him winning every time. It didn't work so I nagged and searched and invaded his privacy, and he has passed his A Levels. It wasn't easy, and he wasn't an easy kid.

It goes against the grain for me, I'm a liberal thinker and wanted to give him the gift of choice - didn't work for him.

On the plus side, I think we're through it, fingers crossed.

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BecauseImWorthIt · 27/08/2010 20:25

LJS666 - you are so right. Treating DS1 as a young adult seems to be backfiring here as well.

We have had to go back to being parents rather than adults, and treating him as if he is much younger than he actually is.

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LJS666 · 27/08/2010 20:44

Because I'm worth it - It just didn't work for us. I kept thinking, "but you're 18!" And thinking "when I was your age, I had a job.......blah, blah", "when your Granddad was your age he was in the Navy.... blah, blah".

It's a different world, my DS1 was much, much more immature than I expected him to be.

More parenting, not less, I think at this last stage. Massively irritating, I think they are scared of leaving Mummy who they, paradoxically, are sick to death of.

Keep the end goal in mind which is getting the best out of them in spite of themselves, and making them independent.

I've always thought DS1 could do so much better if only he could get out of his own way.

Pretend in your head that he's 12 and it kind of helps! With a few G&Ts on the way.

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BecauseImWorthIt · 27/08/2010 21:25

I'm with you on the G&Ts ...

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LJS666 · 27/08/2010 23:06

Me too - I've had a few B&Cs (bacardi and cokes) tonight. Whatever....as the teenagers say.

It's diet coke so that's fine, doesn't count.

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AlevelTrouble · 27/08/2010 23:18

Well, it's sorted!

Not sure what happened really as I was going to hold off any decisions until I could talk to someone at the college on Tuesday but DS1 got home unexpectedly just after 8pm (He's not normally back before 10pm as he goes to the pub with workmates) and I calmly let him read the letter. At the top I'd written his results so he knew I knew he'd lied about the English result.

I didn't really know what to say as I didn't think he'd be home till later but he started the conversation by saying "Well that's wrong. I got a C for English!" I said that I'd spoken to someone from the exam department but the actual grades didn't matter as it wasn't just his grades they were taking issue with. I asked why he hadn't told us what was going on and he said loads of people got the same letter weeks ago. I said I didn't care what letters other students got and that the letter we received today said that he was given a letter when he collected his results to say that they were not offering him a place. He was very quiet after that. Lots of eye rolling as I read out bits of the letter.

Anyway, when I read out the part where it said "A parent or Guardian must come along to the meeting on 9th Sep or we will not consider offering X a place" I said we wouldn't go. I said we'd looked into the cost of renting a room in a house (Which we did) and that on Wednesday I would go with him to the JobCentre and see what was available. Either a full time job or some sort of training and that we would support him until he was able to move out.

Locally a room in a house costs anywhere between £75.00pw to £150.00pw. If he can get a job that pays roughly £200 I said that out of that he could keep lunch and travel money plus £40.00 for extras. The rest will be saved until he has enough for a deposit and rent in advance.

He didn't object at all. He hated the idea of the monthly review with the Principle and told us of a job in fashion retail he'd seen advertised at £6.50 per hour. I said it didn't mean that he couldn't carry on studying and that I was sure he'd work better when he really wanted to rather than because he had college or us breathing down his neck.

Then we talked about his work today for a bit and I told him that I was proud of him for not screaming and shouting and I said that it must feel like a relief to have it out in the open and to have found a painless solution and he said it was and that he knows he works better when he's left alone to get on with things in his own time.

So, no Uni (not anytime soon anyway) but he's happier and I'm happier. He was really sensible about things tonight. A real improvement on his usual attitude. We had a bit of eye rolling but saying I wouldn't go to the meeting shocked him. Shocked me too to be honest as I wasn't going to do anything until Tuesday. I just didn't think he was taking it seriously. He was slumped against the kitchen counter, arms crossed, head down, rolling his eyes and sighing from boredom.

Anyway, done now and it seems that letter did us all a huge favour as he couldn't wriggle out of it with everything there in black and white.

Thank you again for your replies and ideas. Knowing that I wasn't the only to have gone through this and come out the other end was very reassuring. Smile

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nottirednow · 28/08/2010 06:17

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mummytime · 28/08/2010 06:45

Well done! My advice was going to be make him get a job.

Now my advice is, if you can save some money for him, and do investigate options for going to college latter/OU courses. So you can help him if in a couple of years he wants to go to University.

Good luck.

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dinasaw · 28/08/2010 18:24

We have had very similar with Ds2 this year. All year he has done his best to evade work, bunked off sixth form and generally lied about things to avoid getting into trouble.
He decided for himself he wasn't going back to do his A2s, his teachers had said they weren't sure he would get the grades and weren't sure he was up to it. From the arguments we had trying to get him to do AS coursework and from the quality of the work he was producing we can see he is not up to the standard and does not have the motivation to try and improve with our offers of help.
He got two Ds and a U. Of course he says one of the Ds is actually a C as they took wrong module into account, despite the final grade giving him a grade D.
When it was obvious he had given up he was given an ultimatum. He could continue doing A2 but would have to resit AS modules and would need to do a lot of work. He could do a college course or he could get a job and contribute to the household. We made it clear he would not be sitting around doing nothing.
He chose to do a college course. We suggested a few courses he might be interested in and made it clear to him that if he wanted to do this he had to make the effort. He applied by himself, got an interview, got himself to the interview and got accepted onto a course. He's sorting out the transport himself and seems a bit more motivated than he was.
Hopefully he will get something positive out of it. He has been told that he's had his chance and now has to work at it.

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