Very poorly piggy - any ideas what this is?

[CoffeeCrazedMama]

This is a bit of a long story, so apologies in advance. We have two 5 yo female piggies. They live indoors (high fox population around here) but are put out in a run on the grass whenever its fine. A week ago, we'd just put them out when GP1 started fitting (had never done this before). She was really floppy and unable to walk properly. Dd and I rushed her to the vet, who suspected a brain tumour and offered to put her down. I said I'd rather take her home and let nature take its course - for the sake of GP2 as much as anything as they are very attached and she would freak if GP1 just disappeared for good like that (GP2 gets v upset when GP1 is out of her sight!).

We kept GP1 hydrated with a veterinary syringe slopping water in her mouth and gave her lots of cuddles. The only thing she'd eat was lettuce from our veg patch fed by hand. She couldn't walk properly - head flopped on the ground, back legs doing a sort of bunny hop. Was really distressing, however, within about 4 days she was completely fine! (if a little thinner than of old)

However, yesterday I put them out for a run (second day we'd done this since GP1 took ill) and lo and behold, GP2 starts fitting and is now in the same state her sister was before (head flopped forward, legs not working properly, curled up sleeping loads, but not quite as floppy as GP1 was).

The grass is a bit weedy, but mainly with dandelions. A few buttercups admittedly, but they avoid these, and since GP1's illness we hadn't put the run anywhere with them. I thought it might have been aquilegia seeds blowing onto grass from one of the beds but Ive cut those down and GP2 was nowhere near them. We are completely stumped -nothing on any GP sites that is like it - anyone have any experience of this?

[MarigoldsInTheWindow]

could it be something in the soil? fertiliser? or maybe they have eaten berries dropped by birds or slug pellets?

[CoffeeCrazedMama]

This is the thing - because of 'the girls' as they're known, we never put anything chemical on the garden (though have been tempted to put something on rampant bindweed - so glad we havent or we'd be blaming ourselves here). Can only think its organic? Dd3 thinks GP2 may have eaten one of GP1's droppings (lovely gp habit) and that's why she's ill now! Have been madly googling buttercups and all plants in my garden but none of the symptoms seem to match. Its all mouth blisters and so on.

[guineapiglet]

Oh your poor guineas, and poor you. You were right to get her checked out by the vet - we have had lots of girl guineas, and two of them ended up as you describe, it may be some kind of virus that they have contracted with similar symptoms and behaviour - they need to be fed and watered constantly during this time. Not sure about lettuce, although they love it, it is not supposed to be good for them for a lot of reasons, and ours never had it - could it be a chemical on that? ( Assuming it is shop bought) - try dandelions as a substitute or cucumber? Other dangerous plants are hypericon and foxgloves - but your run will not have any of these in them. They will either both miraculously recover, but the symptoms may recur, you might have to prepare yourself for this - ours were very up and down for some weeks after.

In total we had about 15 guineas over 5 years, and out of these only 2 were put to sleep as they were suffering so much, it was horribly stressful, and those that just gently went to sleep in their hutch had much the better endings. They are both a good age, so it might just be old age and decrepitude like the rest of us. Hope it goes well and they both recover. :)

[CoffeeCrazedMama]

Thanks guineapiglet - gp1's recovering really made us relieved we didn't let the vet put her to sleep, and gives us encouragement re gp2. The reason we went for lettuce is that it does tend to make them a bit squitty, and thought that might flush her out a bit if she's eaten something toxic? (given their physionomy means they can't vomit). Interesting you have had them go the same way - wondering if it is some kind of virus, rather than a toxin from the lawn. As dh says, we've all had viruses that make you all weak and shivery and want to just curl up in bed! She's had some water and some cuddles, but been curled up in fresh hay for an hour or so since.

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

Hi coffee -
no personal experience of fitting -either human or guinea-pig.

If you go through the list of possible causes and eliminate (which it sounds like you're doing)

The 'wobbly legs' can be scurvy ,but if your guineas have a varied diet and Vit C enriched pellets-and are eating well- this shouldn't be a problem.

Poisoning, as mentioned above by Marigold
Infection ? (I work with humans and a high temperature with infection can give a flu-ey shakey symptom, but your vet should have ruled that out)


I had a Google Search and quite a few sites suggested mites and/or fungal infection.
Mites might be hard to see and they could certainly go from Guinea one - Guinea two.

It might be a treat the symptoms situation- do you use a mite treatment for your GPs? Might be worth a try. I used Xeno 450 (I think that's the right name) and it protects against mites, lice, roundworm and ticks, but not ringworm.

If they are up to it maybe try a Gorgeous Guineas treatment shampoo ( it will be easier because your GPs are indoor. I had to buff ours with a towel, straw dry and warm with a low heat fan heater last week, they live out)

[KRITIQ]

Wow, I hope both your sows are on the mend soon. How scary this must have been, and worrying that you still don't know what it is that's caused it.

Our elderly kitty started fitting about 3 weeks ago, but it got progressively worse quite quickly and I think the vet was right in thinking it a brain tumour (the old man did have to be pts - RIP Herbie, Pig In Training who never quite cut it!)

There can I understand be many causes of fitting and paralysis in guinea pigs though, not just brain tumours. Perhaps he was thinking that since your girl was a bit of a "senior" pig, this might be the cause. I think it can also happen if their calcium levels are too high or if they've ingested some kind of toxin. Pushing fluids by syringe can't hurt and hopefully would flush out anything from the system more quickly.

I had a baby pig once - emergency purchase from a pet shop after another pig suddenly died (and I couldn't find a new companion for him from a rescue within a 50 mile radius!) whom I'd not had a chance to check over that properly who had scurvy. He didn't fit, but couldn't walk properly and was in pain when he tried. About 3 or 4 days of pushing a vitamin C rich diet and he was fine.

Yes, the other stuff that 70 mentions - infection of some kind? I hadn't thought of parasites, but that's a possible.

Is your vet guinea pig savvy? Do you think she/he would have any further ideas (or you could find a vet that does?)

Best of luck either way and healing wheeks to your girls.

[CoffeeCrazedMama]

Thanks everyone - that's all v helpful. So sorry about your dear old cat, KRTIQ - how sad. Bet he had a lovely life with you,though.

GP2 seems a little brighter this morning, (lots of cuddles last night and hand-watering). Even managed to tip the foodbowl over just now as is her habit so hopefully on the mend. The strange thing is, when GP1 was ill, GP2 was absolutely adorable with her, standing guard and glaring at us, and wrapping herself around her when they were sleeping. Now she's ill, GP1 is pretty much ignoring her !

More convinced now its some sort of virus rather than something they've eaten - GP2 very snuffly and rattly last night. But think I'm going to do some intensive weeding before they go out in the garden again!

[guineapiglet]

Hi - glad to hear things are improving - it certainly sounds more viral doesn't it with the snuffles etc. One thing you can do if you want them outside is to put them in the run, but line it with newspaper, and then pick some grass/put in handfulls of hay etc, so that you can see if it is the surface they are on which is causing the reaction - they get the exercise and are outdoors, but not in contact with the grass directly. It is a bit of a conundrum, but if they do both rally, I should definitely go for some kind of treatment for parasites and some gorgeous guinea, they deserve atreat! They are funny little souls with their different personalities, we had one which was fiercely over protective of her sister and could be quite agressive, but the next moment would be grooming and purring at the outsider...... they are wonderful timewasters!!! Hope all continues to improve :O

[CoffeeCrazedMama]

Thanks for that guineapiglet - what a brilliant idea! Will definitely try if it ever stops raining and we can put them out again. She's now drinking and eating independently now (hurrah) and I'm going to treat them both to some goodies from Gorgeous Guineas (they deserve it)!

[silver73]

I would be very concerned about the snuffly and rattly - it may be serious such as a respiratory infection. One of my pigs had this recently and it needed antibiotics and probiotics from a GP savvy vet. I would take GP2 to the vets so they can listen to her chest.