Oh the so so self-confident exw....

[Shalotta]

Guys, I am back on this thread needing another rant... yesterday was the hand over of DSS after 2 weeks hols with his mother ... would you think the hand over could have gone smoothly? No, of course not... it should have been a HAND OVER but the exw was once again in attention seeking mood and deliberately tried to make a "family afternoon" out of it by delaying and not having DSS things ready and then calling a couple of times back expecting DP to come again to her place picking up what should have been ready a loooong time ago for the week ahead (yes, she had more than 2 weeks to prepare and she was not able to do it)... and when I say "family afternoon" that includes her, DSS and DP.... I am not in the picture here!

When I heard her talking on the phone to DP I suddenly realised that this woman has totally eclipsed me out of the picture. I do not exist to her - and it does not matter if I sit next to my DP and DSS, she just somehow arranged a picture in her mind that I AM NOT THERE and I am not part of the family. I don't know if anyone here can understand how I feel. I don't need this woman's approval but it would be very nice if - after all this time she is not with DP any longer and he lives with me, she could show a little bit of respect and aknwoledge that her exhb has a private life and a new partner that - oh yes - DOES EXIST!

I am really not someone who suffers from low self esteem, but this woman seriously thinks she can step into my private life and roll over me.... with a self-confidence and a lack of self doubt that I find absolutely amazing. This is just something that is totally alien to me, as I am a very considerate person. It is not "hello, is this a convenient time for me to call you? Can we talk" it is " I am calling you and I expect you to drop everything that you were doing right now b/c I have something to tell you". She called, we diverted her call... 2 minutes later she calls again... we diverted again... 2 minutes later she calls again... and, hey, let's get this right, this was not for an emergency... this was for a totally trivial matter. DP then refused to go to her place to pick up the stuff and said she should make her way to ours, which she then did.

So I had another talk with DP and we agreed that this HAS TO STOP. We have set up a lot of boundaries over the last few months... but as she has prooved again yesterday... these boundaries are not enough for her! There seems to be only one way forward and this is to get very rigid with her and we have to build the wall even higher if we want to have a normal family life. And my DP agreed that if in her mind she thinks she needs to treat me as if I don't exist, from now on I should just do the same, I should treat her as if she does not exist in my life either (obviously keeping DSS out of it). I'm trying to understand now what someone pointed out to me earlier, aka that she is not worth my head space...

I know we have talked here a lot about DETACHMENT before and I am working on it. But it is very difficult if someone obviously has such an inflated ego that he/she thinks everyone comes second to her. People like that just leave me speechless.

[Doodle2U]

Speechless?

I'd go the other way - don't treat her like she doesn't exist....patronise her like hell!

[Shalotta]

Doodle2U, you mean bullying her back? ;)

I wish I could, but it is just not my style I'm afraid. I am a sensitive and gentle nature. My strategy is rather keeping out of reach....

[Doodle2U]

No - not bullying her....I was thinking more like 'consulting' her on every little thing at every opportunity...mither her, I suppose. She'll get bored with it after a while. Will only work if you do the calling/speaking though!

[Snorbs]

That's got to be horribly frustrating.

One thing I would say, though, is that a boundary isn't about getting someone else to change how they behave. It's about how to deal with someone else behaving badly. A case in point is her phone calls - by not answering the first two times but then answering the third time, your DP (unwittingly) reinforced the idea with her that all she needs to do is to keep phoning and eventually he'll pick up.

My ex pulls the same kind of crap at times but the only thing that works with her is to remain absolutely consistent.

One other thing that might help is a book called "Understanding the Borderline Mother". It's actually written for children of women with Borderline Personality Disorder but it does have lots of good advice about dealing with people who are drama queens even if they don't have BPD.

[Shalotta]

Snorbs,

I see you know what I am talking about.;)
It's exactly like that, she knows that she only needs to call a couple of times in a row and then she will get an answer.

Interesting book, who's the author? I need to get it. The exw here has a personality disorder, that's obvious. I could tell you so much crap that happened, that would fill two books or more.

Yesterday we sat down, DP and I, and finally put "rules" together, such as not replying to every phone call she makes... not replying on a Sunday at all...trying, from now on, to deal with as much as possible over email instead of phone, etc. .... urghhh...

[Snorbs]

The author's Christine Ann Lawson. Your local library should be able to get hold of it. There's another good one called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Randy Krieger, aimed at people who are in some form of relationship with someone with BPD. It talks a lot about boundaries, ways to communicate more effectively, and ways to remove oneself from the drama.

I'm not saying your DP's ex does have BPD, incidentally. I know my ex doesn't, and no way am I qualified to make that kind of call anyway. It's just that the advice for dealing with those who really do have BPD can still be useful for dealing with people who are generally just demanding, who thrive on drama and who come across as having a massive sense of entitlement.

[Shalotta]

Hi Snorbs,

Thanks again for this. In the case of the ex she has borderline, I can see that very clearly now, just could not put a word on it. She shows all the signs of emotional instability, oscillating between grandeur and depression, emotional blackmail, cheat and lie if necessary, is obsessed with her body, had postnatal depression and eating disorder in the past, etc.

I could see all these things but could not really get detached from her as a person and the attacks she made on me. She can also be very attaching and nice if she is in a good mood, which makes it even more difficult to deal with her. Unfortunately these guys can really suck you into their universe and they just can outrage you... it is very difficult to withstand the anger they create in you, especially when they are in their "self confident" mood. Then again you feel pity for them if they are low. Well, at least this is how I feel.

I will get these books, as we will also need it for DSS. He is the one who will suffer from it most... he is little but he will realise one day that his mommie is not quite like the other mommies. One can see already that he feels fragile and often insecure in his relationship with his mother. Luckily, my DP is like the rock in his life. I also realised that I need to take a step back - I was quite a bit severe in the last few weeks with him, as he started to play up a bit, but now I know that I have to be very very gentle with him.

[BeautyandtheBreast]

Just wanted to say I know how you feel - I thought it was just my dh's ex that was in total denial of my existence.

It's the strangest thing - its like in her mind her and my dh are just living apart for a while or something . Maybe because its very painful for her to see him happy with me, its really hard to give examples of her behavior though to show what I mean.

She very much still treat dh like she is in a relationship with him. - has definitely not learnt that the dynamics have changed (its been over 6 years btw!) I know that where kids are involved there has to be a relationship but not the sort she tries to maintain.

Full on centre of attention drama queen - I sympathise wholeheartedly.

[hayley79]

sorry how is she bulling u i dont get it she doenst notice your are there?

[hayley79]

i meant bullying u?

[Shalotta]

dittany, I assure you it is not about her not wanting to say good-bye to DS. She is the first one to dump DS onto DP and me, as she is always very busy.. btw, she asked my DP back to pick up the stuff while DS was with me... so NOTHING to do with her child.

It is difficult to explain, it is a sort of energy that is going on... of course I could rationalise things saying, oh well, maybe she is just a very disorganised person, that's why she did not have the stuff ready... but if you observe her behaviour over time, there is ALWAYS some crap going on at every hand over... it is not just a coincidence. But that is the tricky thing with manipulation - it is "in between", it is subtle enough to hurt your feelings but you can always rationalise it in a way so that the manipulating person looks like totally innocent.

Apart from that, yes, I agree I am "over-involved"... from an emotional point of view. As it happens, I just stand next to my DP when she calls on a Sunday and she pretends I am not there... and yes, I would be very happy to find a way not to get so involved. I have tried the trick with sighing and thinking "ah what a cow" ( I read this somewhere in the counselling section of a magazine)... but it does not really help me ;)

I agree that my DP needs to do the boundary setting job... and he has gotten already A LOT better at it, but not good enough to prevent her from disturbing our life as a couple. She still manages to sneak in, as she everytime uses a different tactic. Never the same tactic twice and she catches us by surprise. DP has agreed to read the book about borderline mothers and I try to make him understand that with her, you give her a little finger, she takes the whole arm... that you need to be very consistent, as Snorbs has pointed out... one moment of inattention and she is in there again.

BeautyBreast, yes, that's it... same here. She has not accepted that the dynamics have changed now.. she still sees my DP and DS as HER FAMILY. Which is an illusion... DS is HER CHILD, yes, but the rest is none... has not moved on in her head, despite all the time since the divorce, the many different relationship she had in the meantime, etc. my guess is she is somehow a very lonely person.

Haley, no, she did not "bully" me this time... she did in the past though... she does not any longer, since we became more "friendly". Nevertheless, the strategy she uses to get DP's attention like calling until he eventually picks up the phone is very close to if not bullying behaviour I think. And it is this sense of total superiority she sometimes displays and her way of cutting me out of the picture that I found bewildering and ANNOYING. But then again, that might be something between her and DP... maybe she needs to show him she is in control and on top of the world, whatever.

[Shalotta]

dittany, you don't know her and you don't know the situation... of course we can all speculate about the motivations behind this woman's behaviour and none of us might get it right, as the only person who knows is her.... and even she might not know why she is behaving in a certain way.

It's not about her paying attention to me when she calls, it is about her being respectful about how often and when she calls, especially on a Sunday, which is a family day for me... and I am sorry if I sound harsh, but personally I don't instrude on other people's private sphere on a Sunday and in the same way I don't want any ex-wife to intrude on mine. That's it, full stop. My own mother or my DP's mother do not behave in the way this woman does, who is NOT part of our family. They ring us - if we don't answer - they leave us a message and wait until we call them back... they don't keep calling us until we pick up the phone.

This woman has caused a lot of upset in the past - I talked about it on other threads and I don't want to tell the whole story again here. I did speak to several professionals about her and there is a consensus that this person has a mental problem and that she is best to be avoided, which is not possible in our case, as she is the mother of my DSS. It would be absolutely disrespectful of me to classify someone as mad or crazy who is not. But even her own relatives describe her as crazy.

Personally, it helps me a lot to put a diagnosis on it, b/c this helps me to detach from her as a person and see her as someone who cannot act differently, as this is part of her psychological make-up. But it does not mean that if she cannot act differently, her behaviour is acceptable.

The reason I talk so negatively about her is that unfortunately mental instability involves a lot of negativity. And I am one of the main recipients of her negativity, so it should not be a surprise if I then feel negatively in return about her. I am not a bully and I would never dare to treat anyone like she has tried to treat me in the past. Besides, I have never retaliated to her, as tempting as it could have been.

I think nobody who has not experienced what it means to have a person with personality disorder in his life can understand how difficult it can be. And to be honest, I don't wish this to anyone, because it can make your life miserable if you allow it to. Maybe this is not the right place here to talk about it all, maybe I should go on a specialised site for people with PDO. But there is not a lot of info out there when it comes to parenting- step/parenting constellations, that is why I am still here.

My DP and I, we do sometimes "forget" that she is more than just a "difficult" person, then we treat her like someone who has firm boundaries in place and this then backfires badly on us. I think the work he and I have to do here is to constantly remind us about it, inform us about it, put up a strategy how to cope with it and stick firmly to this strategy. Otherwise I'll end up again like on Sunday.... VERY ANGRY and FRUSTRATED.

[Shalotta]

Just wanted to add that me - and so is DP - are in a learning phase... we need to learn how to act/react in a situation like this. We are not perfect, we make mistakes, and there is still a lot more we need to learn. That is why I am grateful for opinions from people who are in a similar situation. Not necessarily with PDOs, but as snorbs pointed out with people who are generally vey demandind and think are entitled to special treatment.

Also, there is a lot of information out there about how to deal with a PDO if you are in a relationship with such a person or if you are a child of such a person. But little has been said if you are the stepmum of the child of such a person and how you deal with it if you - as a stepmum - are the recipient of a PDOs negativity... at least I am not really aware of literature, etc. so if you have some info, please send it on to me.

[prettyfly1]

I hate to say this Shallota and up till now I kept closed on this but I am kind of on the fence between you and Dittany.

I dont think you mean to do it but you sound very much like you feel the interaction from this woman is infringing on YOUR family and you would prefer it if she disappeared.

I am a step mum too and god its hard but I still try to maintain some compassion for the mum of my dss regardless of how crazy she drives me. She will call asking for favours and is ripping off the government but her and my dp had a child and will be bonded over that forever. HER child is in your care and if my dss mum wanted to call twenty times a day it would be ok while he was here. Sunday may well be your family day but actually dss IS HER family. SHE gave birth to him, SHE held him as a baby and SHE will always be more important then you to him. It is very easy to make others appear behaviouraly disfunctional - unless those same professionals have spent time with her neither you nor they have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to suggest she has bpd or any other such serious mental disorder.

You need to seperate yourself from this. It is not your responsibility or your place to deal with, concentrate on enjoying your ds and if you dont wish to be contacted turn your phone off but I do think whilst I understand exactly how mad she makes you that you need to take a look at your own reaction, which to me on the information on all of your threads, which I have read, sounds very, very involved to the extent of unhealthy.

If you are secure in your relationship and happy with your dss there is no need for endless rumerations on her mental stability and as the mother of a child you are looking after it isnt very respectful.

Please also bear in mind that being a single parent is very VERY hard and very VERY tiring and tbh particularly if she works I wouldnt expect her to be that organised - she is doing the work of you and you dh on her own remember. SHe may be calling over and over becuase she is very lonely - perhaps a little more kindness and understanding is called for here.

[edam]

OK, you find her very irritating, but assuming that other people must know about and live by some rules that you have invented for your family (like not calling anyone on a Sunday) is unreasonable and will just make your blood pressure shoot up.

[fourkids]

Shalotta, It's fine to come here for a rant

I know from your previous posts that your beef with DH's ex is not really about her calling you on a Sunday at all is it? It's perhaps about the fact that she considers herself to be the centre of the universe - both hers and your DH's! And one of the ways this has played out on this occasion is to keep redialling until your DH answers the phone to her (which IMO is rude and very self-centred) and she may well have deliberately done this on a day when she knows you will be trying to enjoy family time together.

Rest assured, that with knowledge of your previous issues with her, plenty of people will feel for you. It IS unreasonable for your DH's ex to be disrespectful to you (or him) and of your relationship together.

By putting strong and rigid boundaries in place you will hopefully be able to resolve this situation (although it may take some time) and hopefully in the long term when she 'withdraws' and acknowledges to herself that YOU are DH's partner not her, you will all be able to get on much better - maybe then you will be able to actually invite her to be a part of the family. It sounds like you are trying to do this. There may be difficult times ahead - I would think things may get worse before they get better! So good luck and chin up

[marmon]

I agree that this is a good place to have a rant and people will have opinions which do not always match yours but that is their entitlement. I completely sympathise with you I have had an ex wife who tried to remain in control of my dh in the beginning but things do get better, as long as you have boundaries and stick together.

However I did have to face up to my own insecurities and admit to myself that I was jealous of the fact they had a child together and had shared history. It sounds immature but I guess its common in these sort of situations but it takes alot to put your hands up too it. I still get pangs of the old green monster but I cannot change anything. My main bit of advice to you is try not to let the ex become an obsession or you will make yourself ill and destroy your relationship. He loves you and you love him and that will hopefully overide all the bullshit! All the best.

[prettyfly1]

Very well said Marmon and shalotta for what it is worth - nine times out of ten differences of opinion are just that - differences of opinion - not personal just different views of your situation. You are entitled to a rant BUT you have had a few over a very short space of time hence the reason I still feel quite strongly that it is important that you get some distance from this - you are risking it becoming a bit of an obsession and another viewpoint then would be that she has won, got her way and is the focus of your world as well. Dont allow it to happen. I still maintain that she is his mum which is why I think it is so important you learn to deal with her behaviour without letting her occupy so much of your headspace. Tot up all that time talking about her with your dp, ranting about her and musing over your feelings about her here, talking to those professionals about her plus all the time thinking about her behaviour. Bit too much for someone I doubt you need to care about at all.

[Shalotta]

Hi guys,

yes, I admit it is true I have difficulties to put myself in her shoes, although I really have tried in the past. But I've also learned the hard way that empathising with her, being cooperative and understanding did not help in this situation. I even told her once that I give her a lot of credit for raising a child "alone" (let's face it - the father of the child was for a long time father AND mother, he put a lot more work and effort in it than she. She just recently started to get more involved in her parental responsibilities). As a " paycheck" I got the "my child hates you" drama, the one I have described in a previous thread.

I also do agree that there is a lot of insecurity involved here, as I am myself a child from an abusive mother and going through all this again with this woman is not easy for me. OK, I am not a child any longer, but she impacted so strongly on my private sphere that it feels quite a bit the same and to me it feels like HELL. I had the dilemma - do I stay in this relationship, or do I leave? And as I have decided that I want to stay in this relationship - what are the alternatives to make it bearable to me.

It's not this woman's fault that I had an abusive mother, but it is not my fault either that this woman has a mental problem (well, maybe I have one too, but I least do not disturb other people's private lifes).
So what do we do, who's in the right here?

I spoke again to a child psychotherapist today and the this person told me her behaviour is unacceptable and the only solution to a healthy couple and family life is to set her very rigid boundaries.

So guys, please be kind on me and don't slaughter me! I'm here just to get advice.

[Shalotta]

fourkids, I really agree with you... once these boundaries are set and she accepts me as the new partner, I will have no more need to come here for a rant and probably I and her will get on a lot better too. So fingers crossed this will happen.

[solidgoldshaggingbunnies]

The thing is, she is family. She and your DH are co-parents to their child, which is a family relationship that cannot be stopped or made to disappear just because one or both co-parents has another partner. You can't, actually, tell her what to do and just expect her to obey - why should she?
You can't change her behaviour, you can only change your reaction to it, and TBH the more you stamp your foot and demand 'respect' the more tempting it becomes for her to wind you up, I would imagine.