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Advice Needed...I'm afraid it's another EXP issue :-S

28 replies

ameNbump · 06/04/2009 16:10

Hi all... I have posted on this thread once before, and received some really valuble advice. For those of you who aren't familiar, here's a bit of backfround (I'll try and keep it short).

I have been with DP for a year. His DC's are 2&3. When we were first together I met his children on 5or 6 occasions, and we got along great. (I was just introduced as Daddy's "friend"). We got along great, but DP's ex has sinse decided that I'm allowed nothing to do with them. I haven't seen them sinse last August. 6months ago i moved 200miles away for work purposes. I am now 19 weeks pregnant myself, with my first baby, DP has moved to be with bump and I, and goes back to see his children every weekend.

We have tried negotiating with DP's ex, and at first she decided that I could se the children over this bank holiday weekend, which I was delighted with. Then she changed her mind, and said I could see them for one hour, providing it was at DP's Mum's, and that his Mum was there. We agreed to this. It wasn't ideal, but it means the world to DP, so is well worth the £40 train fares, even just for a hour. I thought it would be a step in the right direction.

NOW, she has decided that I can only see them if its at HER house wit her there. I really don't feel comfortable with this. Firstly, it was her and DP's house, and I also think that the kids would pick up on the atmosphere. If I thought she'd be reasonable I might, but she still refers to me as "The one person I hate".

I do accept that I will have to meet her, and we have asked to meet her in a neutral place, but she has basically said that if I want to see them, hat's the way it has to be. She plans to have her whole family there, and I just feel that they will all be searching for ammunition against me. It's also a lot of stress for bump & I.

I am scared that if I don't go, she'll say that I've been given the opportunity, but that I blew it. But I really really don't think it's something I can do at the moment.

Does anyone have any advice/opinions? I would be so so grateful for a bit of persective?

...Sorry, this turned out to be quite long.

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LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 06/04/2009 16:15

You don't have to meet her. She has no rights to insist on any of this.

Does your dp have Parental Responsibility and proper contact in place?. If he has weekends then he can bring them back to the home you and him share together.

There's nothing to stop him bringing them back to your family home, presumably they will want to meet their stepbrother/stepsister when your baby is born.

I wouldn't bother trying to pander to her wishes. It was nice of you to do so (did he leave her for you and you to feel guilty or something?)

Hope you don't get too stressed

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prettyfly1 · 06/04/2009 16:33

I am guessing that there is a possibility that she and your partners relationship wasnt over when you met hence the "one person I hate" thing. Either that or she is unhinged and reasoning with her is futile. She is trying to be controlling and your dp needs to put his foot down. Stop trying to be nice - its emotional blackmail and as you have already seen, if it works once she will do it again and again. You dont have to be anything - step away from the situation - you need to concentrate on new baby right now but tell your dp he has to sort this out - it isnt fair on the kids as much as anything else.

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mrsjammi · 06/04/2009 16:46

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AnitaBlake · 06/04/2009 16:53

Seriously, you do not have to meet this woman, or pander to her. i have no intention of meeting my OHs ex, I d not feel it is in anyones best interests, it is most likely I will swing for her for what she has done to my OH, but that is beside the point. there is co-operation and there is control and this woman is controlling you, and your DP. She has no right at all to dictate what your DP does with his DC on his own time, does he have control over she is allowed to introduce the DC to?

If not consider why not. Do you have a contact order or agreement in place? We are going through this process now due to OHs ex being controllong and refusing to allow him even a relationship with his DD never mind anything else! You need to set boundaries and she really doesn't have any right to stop you having contact with them! Your DP needs to get this sorted!

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ameNbump · 06/04/2009 16:59

They had seperated whn we met, but she decided she wanted to give it another go, for the sake of the kids. He met me, and didn't, so yes, i suppose she will always see me as the woman who broke her family up, and I will always feel guilty about it.

I have been quite poorly during this pregnancy, and just don't know if I can cope with the stress of going there.

I would be happy(ish) to meet in a neutral location, but she has made it quite clear that it's not an option. There are no access regulations in place, he used to see them as and when (mainly as an when it suited her) but now it's weekends b/c he has moved down here.

Thanks for al help/advice so far.

A x

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Haribosmummy · 06/04/2009 17:16

Hi Ame!!

I met with my my DH's ex prior to having regular contact with the kids. If I'm totally honest, it had ZERO to do with the kids and ALL to do with her, but I'm glad that I did it (my DSDs were younger / about the same as yours are now) because she can't say that we didn't do it 'her' way. We did. (though, we met at a neutral location.. not her house)

You have to get over feeling guilty. Something very similar happened with me and DH... She blames you... She always will. Oookkkkkaaayyyyy...... Unless you have a gun pointed at your OH's head, it's NOT your fault.

But, for all of that, the kids are young. For the sake of it, I would say meet with her, agree how things will work etc., It can't harm things (though to be fair, I wasn't 19 weeks PG when I went through this - does she KNOW you are pG? I think so:??)

it IS a power game, but that doesn't mean you have to play hard ball. I'm really pleased that I feel DH and I did everything thet 'right' way. It didn't feel like the easy way at the time, (and it wasn't) but it did show the committment we had to each other.

We now have GREAT relationships with DSDs. I'd say I've really backed off since having DS (I'm def. more of a friend in the last couple of years) which I think is great for us. DH is the one that makes decisions / takes responsibility which is the way it ought to be.

His ex is still f*ing nutty though.

Can you agree an 'end point' if you go through with these meetings?

so:
1 meeting just you and her (should be somewhere public)
2-3 meetings where she comes and goes with the kids and you and your OH are there together (I do actually think this is great at establishing you and their dad as a 'couple' for the kids)
2-3 meetings where you take the kids out for a little while (you and OH together)
and then move on with the routine contact?

Is that something you could suggest?

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monkeylaine · 06/04/2009 17:19

Hi there ameNbump,
I was in a similar position last Summer. My partner's ex told my partner that Social Services said I was not allowed to go near their kids (he believed them) - she made up some excuse. I was pregnant and his ex decided he would have the kids for a few weeks, while she went on a holiday 100's of miles away - which meant I didn't get to see him during this time. I decided to go see Social Services, who almost laughed at me. They told me that no such thing would happen - I wouldn't be banned without any notice, and that I'd have to be known to them as a danger to children, then I'd be sent a letter telling me I should have no contact while they investigate/assess. Of course - it had all been a lie.

SS said that the childrens' dad has every right to have a girlfriend and to judge for himself whether they're suitable to be around his children or not. They were almost 'mocking' in their response - like I should know this. They said that his ex sounds very controlling, and maybe jealous (they also quoted - she sounds like a woman scorned!). They told me to tell my partner that he should not listen to the threats, i.e. you can't have the kids if your girlfriend's there, or your gf will be in trouble with SS if she goes near the kids, etc.

My suggestion is for your partner to sort out his rightful access to his children, i.e. including for him to have them stay over with him on a regular basis. For example, it would be reasonable for him to ask for the children to stay with him every other weekend, and part of school holidays (even a night in the week if it was possible). You do need to have appropriate accommodation for the children though. Otherwise, he needs to sort out some other appropriate unsupervised contact while you sort your home out to accommodate the children. That will be all any authority are concerned with - unless you were registered as a danger to children!

If his ex wont give him access to his children (as is his right) because of your presence, he might have to apply for a contact order to enforce what is his right. We did this in the end, as my partner had spent years being controlled (and it was his ex who didn't want him!) and for some reason believing all this sort of rubbish - costing him any chance of a relationship in the past.

Within weeks of applying for the contact order, everything was sorted. Obviously I have no rights, so it was between the two parents. The statement focused on my partner being denied access to his kids for reasons such as being with his pregnant girlfriend, and he had been denied access whenever he had a girlfriend in the past, when it suited his ex. He asked for more structured contact to be put in place (and it was), and despite his ex trying to sling mud at him from all directions, he got that contact order. He represented himself by the way (no solicitor was required).

The law does not condone a parent denying access to a another parent (without good reason). In some cases, such behaviour has resulted in the other parent being given custody. In our case, the courts knew the children would be staying at my house, as it was stated in the statement we submitted that my partner was moving in with me, etc. Also, after I went to SS and before applying for the contact order, my partner started to bring the kids to my house and ignored what his ex said - telling her it was lies. So basically he stood up to her! That is all he ever really needed to do.

From my perspective, the problem wasn't just related to wanting to see my partner's kids, although they did phone me asking why they couldn't see me (they knew I was pregnant) and they told me they missed me, etc., but I was pregnant and very anaemic even at the early stages (as it was then) - I had two kids to look after, a job, hormones all over the place, etc., and my partner's ex was doing all she could to stop us being together. Luckily I don't suffer fools!

Good luck with this. I hope this helps in some way.

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monkeylaine · 06/04/2009 17:36

p.s. I did meet partner's ex, as some suggest you do, and she was OK with me being around the kids. I found things OK(ish) until I became pregnant, and then she went off the rails. It's better to try the amicable approaches I think, but the important point is it should not be just on her terms. As others have suggested, meet at a neutral place when you're all happy to do so, and at a place you are all happy with.

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Haribosmummy · 06/04/2009 17:49

I'd just like to point out that if an ex isn't going to be 'OK', she is NEVER going to be 'OK'.

I've been with my DH for 10 years (so they've been apart for over a decade) and she STILL will cross the road rather than deal with the fact that WE have a child now (he's 10 months old)

Please don't beat yourself with 'if we'd waited longer' etc.,

if she's going to have a problem, she's going to have a problem. End of.

And, I should add, my DSDs are very happy with their dad. We have a great relationship. They love their brother (for which I'm very grateful!) and enjoy spending time here. So, emotionally, the kids have a great relationship with the girls.

Financially, we pay for everything. So that's covered to.

Physically, the girls are cared for every step of the way.

their mum still has a massive problem with life in general.

Best not to lose too much sleep over it, IMHO

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monkeylaine · 06/04/2009 17:56

p.p.s Sorry I think I'll clarify - I know your partner isn't denied access to his kids. But, the problem is, he's denied the type of access he has a right to. He can't leave you every weekend to see his kids. If your partner were to insist on taking his children home this weekend for example (i.e. to your house), that would result in her denying access. Access to his children is not in accordance with his legal rights at present - it's based on his ex's 'controlling' terms.

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prettyfly1 · 06/04/2009 18:00

from the sounds of it you have nothing to feel guilty for. Some women just cant move on and that isnt your fault - it was already over - nothing would change that and if he hadnt met you he would have met someone else at some stage!

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Fluffybubble · 06/04/2009 18:10

To be fair, though, the dc were only one and two when you got together with their dad. My exh left when our ds was one and I felt hugely protective and very very hurt. Your OH has also moved a long way away, which my exh also did. This left me questioning his commitment to our child. My exh's new partner also became pg fairly quickly afterwards and I think that you need to perhaps imagine how you would feel in her position - say in a year/eighteen months time your OH decides to move on again and then wants your baby to go and stay away with his new dp...

It is very early days. Obviously, his ex will have to at least attempt to come to terms with things at some point but these dc are her babies and I think that some reticence is understandable. Having said that, your dp is entitled to a relationship with the dc, and they with him. Have your dp and his ex considered mediation to map out some kind of plan for contact for the future? This may help to give you all some idea of how to proceed, in the best interests of all three dc.

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Haribosmummy · 06/04/2009 18:24

I think Fluuflybubble's POV is worth considering. This is why I was keen to do things the way Dh's ex wanted them done.

The kids were little and it's hard (controlling or not) to let little ones go to a stranger.

I'm glad that we did things the way we did (even if I do think it had more to do with the ex). I can't imagine how I would feel if some other woman was planning to take care of my DS for the night.

One thing I forgot to mention is that DH and I had been together for a year or so before I met the ex / his kids etc., So, it took quite a while just to get to that situation.

That's what I like about MN. YOu do get a balanced opinion.

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ameNbump · 07/04/2009 11:10

Thank you all so much for the advice. It is great to be able to access a forum where there are such varied experiences. I'm very grateful for the balanced viewpoint. I will consider meeting with her, though I am still not convinced that her house is the right place...I just feel like whatever i do with the kids will be put under the microscope, and ultimately criticised. which is ridiculous, as I work in paediatrics, so have to establish a rapport with young children very quickly on a daily basis.

I can empathise with her. I'm quite sure that when bump is out the thought of another woman playing "Mother" to him/her would be terribly difficult to cope with. I just feel like they have a right to establish a bond with their baby sibling, and it's Mother.

I think maybe I will wait a little while. I have been quite poorly, so am trying hard to eliminate a lot of stressful factors. I have cut my caseload down etc. This situation isn't going anywhere, so I guess we all have a bit of time to mull things over. I like the idea of mediation though.

Thanks everyone. I feel much better about it today than I did before posting yesterday.

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anniemac · 07/04/2009 12:17

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Haribosmummy · 07/04/2009 12:31

Ame - I know from the other thread that you have been quite poorly.

Just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. there is nothing at all wrong / selfish if you want to put this on the back burner until the LO is born and you are feeling a bit less poorly.

Do put yourself and your LO first at this time and don't feel pressured into anything you feel uncomfortable with.

If you don't meet with her for a few months, then so be it. There is a reasonable chance that, even after you have met with her etc., she STILL won't be OK about things...

The kids are very young, THere is all the time in the world to get this sorted and taking it slowly is almost certainly for the best.

HM x

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anniemac · 07/04/2009 12:35

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anniemac · 07/04/2009 12:47

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ameNbump · 07/04/2009 15:54

Thanks everyone.

I do understand that a meeting will be necessary at some point, but maybe I will ask again at a later date for a neutral location. HM maybe I will ask to meet her 1;1 like you suggested. It may help to clear any animosity before we all see the kids together. Like I say, I do understand how she feels, but we are not asking to take the kids to stay with us...Just that I can go up there with him on the occasional weekend.

Out of interest anniemac how would one go about accessing child focused mediation?

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anniemac · 07/04/2009 16:06

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Haribosmummy · 07/04/2009 16:29

Ame - you aren't asking for the kids to stay with you now, but she knows it won't be long before that IS going to be requested.

She's on her own with two young kids and probably awake at 3am (always the VERY worst time to think about things!) tossing around the idea of you / your DP / the kids / new baby all playing happy families.

I'm going to be really honest and say, when I first met my DH and his kids, I was pretty clueless about how his ex would feel about things. I thought she should be happy the kids were happy, I thought it would be nice if I sent back little photos etc., of the time the kids were with us. I'd get the kids to write holiday diaries so she'd know what her kids had done. For birthdays / christmases / mothers day, I'd take the kids out and have them make mugs / plates / cards etc.,

Only with the benefit of hindsight can I see that this upset her greatly. That she saw it as a kick in the teeth - that I was making a big play of the kids having such a wonderful time with us etc., and she HATED the reminders (mugs etc) that I had so obviously helped the kids make.

I honestly did not mean one part of it maliciously or with anything other than with the goodness it was intended, but I now know that REALLY isn't how she saw it.

Now, I stay out of her way and she stays out of mine. We are civil around the kids, but I think we'd probably pass each other in the street if the kids weren't about. It's not how I'd like it to be, but it's how it has to be.

I rant about her on here (and elsewhere!) from time to time. I'm sure she does the same. I only see one side of her personality. I'm sure she has a warm, loving side... I just never see it. Just as I'm sure she has a view on me.

Not sure if that helps at all, to be honest. I do think a 1:1 meeting would help, but I do think a neutral location would be beneficial.

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Haribosmummy · 07/04/2009 16:31

Gosh, what a lot of waffling!

my point was, she's probably taking 2 and 2 and making 54.

She's probably feeling a bit vunerable - with the split and then the baby and then your DP moving... so regardless of what you are SAYING, she's probably multiplying that massively in her head and feels she needs to protect her kids / family / life

Does that make sense?

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Fluffybubble · 07/04/2009 17:52

I have been pondering this some more...!!

Do you really have to meet her at the moment? I know that you must want to see the dc and that you want to support your dp but maybe you should take a step back for the time being - you could look at it as allowing your dp to build some bridges with his ex and to spend some one-on-one time with the dc. Obviously, this is not a long term solution but it may mean that his ex feels slightly less threatened by you and your relationship with your dp (and your pregnancy tbh), and it also means that you don't get so stressed out.

Initially, I felt that my exh should spend some time with our ds on his own, as he saw him so rarely. I also wanted to be acknowledged and respected as my ds's primary carer - I had no desire to meet his new partner and, to some degree, I had to trust his judgement regarding her being part of my ds's life. I also wanted to make any decisions regarding our ds with my exh directly, hence mediation. I definitely then felt that I was 'heard' and, therefore, not so threatened by my exh's suggestions regarding contact.

I have now met his new partner (she ambushed me outside mediation, another story!) and I have no intention of doing so again. I trust my exh to have my ds's best interests at heart and, to his credit, he does take on board what I say regarding ds, so I know that he cares for him as I would hope.

My ds now knows that he has a brother and sees him fairly infrequently. In some ways the fact that his dad left so early on has been beneficial, as my ds does not question our situation, it is just normal. When your baby arrives things will change again, even just practically with the distance involved travelling to your dsc. I think that the best thing is to consider your situation a work in progress, whatever you sort out for the next couple of months does not necessarily dictate how things will be in a year...

Good luck .

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ameNbump · 09/04/2009 09:06

Thanks HM and fluffybubble

I'm really grateful for the advice, and yes. It makes a lot of sense. I think, for now, I will give it a bit of time. Maybe it's what dh's ex needs,as well as the rest of us, and like you say, it would be nice for him to have some quality time with his dc.

Thanks again

Axx

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Surfermum · 11/04/2009 21:18

I'm coming a bit late to this, but my view is that you shoudn't go and meet her at the moment if it's going to be stressful for you. You need to be concentrating on you and the baby right now, this will all still be there once the baby is born and can wait. I would certainly by very wary given that she refers to you as the one person she hates. You don't have to put it across in a way that is refusing or even abrasive, maybe just say that you're under doctors' instructions to rest and can't make it sort of thing.

The important thing is that you stay well and that your dh continues to have contact with his children. She is going to have to accept at some point that he has moved on and that you are part of her childrens' lives but that is only something she can come to in her own time, not something that can be forced. They are going to have to think longer term about contact and how it will work as presumably your dh will want the children to come to spend time with him at his home too - and if she isn't going to play ball about that he does have the option of getting a Court Order.

And I have to say my own experience is very different to Haribo's when she says "if an ex isn't going to be 'OK', she is NEVER going to be 'OK'". My dsd's mum hated me and then some, despite her being the one to leave dh for someone else. She had real problems with ... well me full stop, but with me being involved with dsd, referred to me as "fat tart", accused me of all sorts of ridiculous things that simply weren't true. And probably at its worst she threatened to "smack me in the f'ing gob" (nice!) and told me that she was going to curse me and hope my baby was born deformed.

But I am very pleased that it isn't like that now, we've been on a much better footing now for about 18 months (took 8 years mind!) - at which point she told me that it had never been about me, it had all been her stuff that she had had to deal with. In fact this weekend I dropped dsd back to her mum on my own, went in and had a cuppa and a chat, and as dh was working a lot we had made all the arrangements ourselves - all very friendly and no problems.

So please don't think it is always going to be like this because it may not. And chatting face to face with dsd's mum is not something I ever envisaged happening in the early days.

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