So DSS said to me this morning...

[RonneandFrankie]

DP went to have a shower and DSS and I were just hanging out in the loungeroom. DSS is 4.
Basically as soon as DP was in the shower, DSS turns to me and whispers. Conversation goes like this:

DSS: I tell my mum that you say naughty words to me all the time.
Me: What? You told your mum that?
DSS: Yeah. I told her you always say naughty words to me.
Me: But I don't. Why did you say that?
DSS: Because.

That was pretty much it. I didn't push it any further because I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable talking to me etc. Naughty words for him is swearing.
I was absolutely blown away. The fact that he waited for DP to be gone to whisper that to me, and the fact he was smiling when he said it. And the fact that I never swear around him, let alone to him. I've never even raised my voice or anything at all to him.

The only thing I could think is that his mother is making it clear she doesn't like me/the idea of me, and DSS is playing along with his mum's idea of "Dad's girlfriend is bad." It feels extremely led, or coached.

Even though I know all these things, I was actually really hurt. It just felt like another no win situation. DP knows that it's not true, obviously, but still. Can't help thinking that so many other people would be happy to assume the worst :(

[RonneandFrankie]

I didn't actually have anything to ask. Just wanted to share the hurt a little bit I think.

[ecuse]

how horrible, of course you're hurt. I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that it means your DSS mum is bad-mouthing you, though. Unless you have other reason to think that? I would ask DP to have a quiet pre-emptive word with his ex and explain situation and that it's not true. I wouldn't take anything my 3yo says at face value necessarily. The line between truth and imagination is fairly slim at that age isn't it? and not really signifying much about their intent?

[shey03]

Feel a bit upset for you there. Whatever's behind it, it's not nice and can have negative implications if someone chooses to use it as ammunition... I feel your vent and really sympathise. Hugs.

[olgaga]

Poor little chap. It's not about you.

[theendoftheendoftheend]

I think its kind of a good thing he felt he could tell you though?

[TheDeathOfRats]

My ex SD (who lives with me) said stuff very similar when she still had contact with her mum- at about 5. I think it's just a phase. It's a hurtful one, but they will badmouth you to their teachers, their teachers back to you, they'll tell their friends made up lies, they'll tell you made up stuff too. It's painful to be told it like that. His mum might not be saying stuff about you either, but he still might feel he should say that or that she'd want him to, even though she might very well not- out of a sense of loyalty, but more subconsciously iyswim.

[RonneandFrankie]

DP and ex aren't on very good terms. There's already been instances where DSS has said stuff to his mum and she's brought it up with DP. DP has said it's not true, and the ex has just said DP is a liar and she'd trust the word of her 4 year old over DP. (Things like DSS has said my dog bites him and makes him bleed - totally understandable that it was something she wanted to ask about, but when DP said it wasn't true as there's always supervision, dog is outside and there is never, ever a mark on DSS etc that's when she came out with the "I'd trust DSS's word over anything you say.")

I didn't want to read too much into it, as he's only 4, even if he is a fairly clever 4 year old. I think that's why I wanted to assume he was picking up on his mum's dislike and just going along with it. And over time there's been bits and pieces that DSS has said that makes us think ex is not necessarily bad-mouthing, but dropping little comments here and there that DSS repeats.

Just a disappointing surprise for this lovely, sunny morning I guess.

[RonneandFrankie]

Thanks for all your replies

Sorry, many x-posts.

Yeah, I was pleased he could talk to me, which is why I didn't push it any further, or try to tell him it was wrong to say it etc. I just left it at that and we watched some more tv.

Yeah, Death the subconscious thing was what I was thinking. Sometimes I think kids are a lot like animals, they pick up on stuff really, really easily. So any negative vibes wouldn't be too hard for him to pick up on at all.

I know kids just say whatever the hell they feel like it sometimes. Just started so early!

[theendoftheendoftheend]

It sounds like you dealt with it well. And it is embarrassingly easy to discuss things in front of children that age without realising how much they pick up on, so like you said the DM might not even realise.

[MuttonCadet]

My DSS used to do this, he'd also say things to me about his mum, that she hasn't fed him etc.
I told him very clearly that I knew his mum looked after him well and loved him very much and I thought saying nasty things about her was unfair. So he stopped.
I think he gets a different reaction when he bad mouths me to her

[wheresthelight]

He is definitely picking up on something or has learnt very early how to get what he wants from mum by playing the poor hard done by step child card.

I would mention it to your dp and get him to discuss with his ex before she brings it to your door!

[TheCunkOfPhilomena]

It could be that he isn't handling the situation of his mum and dad not living together. You said he's bright, well he may be comparing his set up to his friends'. As he's only four, he won't have a proper handle on his emotions yet and may not know how to demonstrate his frustration. It must have been horrid to hear, I'm sorry.

I think a talk with DP would be a good start. I know you said that things aren't great between DP and his ex but could they talk about this at least?

[RonneandFrankie]

Thanks for replies everyone.

DP talking about it to ex really isn't an option (although I know it would be the course of action that makes the most sense!). All contact is through email only, and she rarely ever replies unless she has some underhanded insult she wants to throw in. E.g. DP sent her an email asking her to make sure DSS was dressed in more than shorts and a t-shirt (he had no shoes on either) for the change over as it was the middle of winter and she picked a place that was outside. Her reply was "DSS didn't want to wear shoes", followed by her normal "what happens at my house is absolutely none of your business."

Contact is very, very minimal. If he texts her phone to remind her that it's a contact day (she's "forgotten" in the past), she tells him that if she receives another text, she'll go to the police and report him for harassment. I'm hoping that he hasn't actually told her, or if he has, that she either a) doesn't care, as she swears and yells at him anyway, or b) she knows it's not true. Or, she's holding onto it to use later :/

He's doing a lot better with settling into his parents living separately now I think, which is good. When he was first having overnights with DP he was wetting the bed every night and getting up 4-5 times a night, and his behaviour was pretty wild. But as Cunk said, he may be realising his friends have different set ups.

Mutton - I think the same - if DSS badmouthed me or DP I don't think his mum would think it were a bad thing....
Light he definitely has learned how to push boundaries and get what he wants through crying, asking for cuddles, whining, ignoring etc (I feel bad, but sometimes I almost laugh when I see him cycle through all of the options, trying to find one that is going to work) and is starting to (I think) show signs of playing mum against dad (from what I remember of my younger siblings doing when my parents split.)

DP and I talked about it again this morning, and he did say he noticed over the course of the weekend that DSS had been lying a lot about basically everything. So it seems like he's coming into that phase, maybe just checking what he can get away with, or maybe learning that mum and dad don't magically know everything?

[TheCunkOfPhilomena]

Oh, it sounds like he is really testing boundaries. Really tough for everyone concerned but this is when he needs a united front form you and DP. If you can't sort things with DP's ex then you need to work together and let DSS know what is and isn't acceptable and what the consequences are. Let him see his behaviour as a choice so he can choose to do the right thing and remind him of this when you suspect he's going to overstep the mark.

Without wanting to sound patronising, it sounds like he needs a lot of affection too from you and DP.

[RonneandFrankie]

Yeah definitely Cunk, I agree. Sometimes it feels like we're basically starting over again every fortnight, but it's slowly getting a little easier, minus this latest blip. It's basically "So remember there are different rules at daddy's house. We don't yell at people, and we make sure we listen." That sort of talk right at the start of the weekend and take it from there.

Doesn't sound patronising at all :) I agree. I sometimes harbour fears that DP will turn Disney Dad, but we'll see. But DSS definitely gets lots of affection. I do feel sorry for the poor little buddy though. The lack of consistency is no doubt shaking him up, especially at this age :(

Everyone's examples of kiddies saying things out of the blue really helped, as well. Thank you everyone! And DP assured me DSS really does like me (DP reminded me that DSS won't even cuddle his grandparents but gives me hugs to say goodbye etc) so that was nice as well :)

[daisychain01]

I remember years ago my DSS just came out with " my mum hates you". I grasped the nettle in the moment as it's the best time to deal with those sort of comments that kids come out with "well, sweetie, I don't hate your mum, it's probably best that way isn't it". He knew exactly what I meant and I know the reason why he said it, his DM was coming out with lots of negative comments so he was trying to make sense of it all (kind of - how can my DM hate someone she's never met?).

Ronne just to replay the chat you and DSS had as an example, could you develop it in a way as to "teach" him why it isnt acceptable? Eg

DSS: I tell my mum that you say naughty words to me all the time.
Me: Mmm OK, DSS.... but you and I both know it isn't true, is it?
DSS: No but I said anyway.
Me: I don't use naughty words because they don't sound nice, and I know other words that are better. So you don't need to tell your DM something that isn't the truth, do you?
DSS: no

If you give him reinforcing messages about talking the truth, so he remembers (even when he isnt with you), hopefully he will start to "join the dots" a bit more with the things he says.

[daisychain01]

And just to reassure you, my DSS has compartmentalised his 2 lives really well over the years, and he's turned into a well- balanced young man. You DSS will learn what the score is in his home with you, they get to know pretty quickly esp if its predictable

[RonneandFrankie]

Thanks for your suggestion Daisy :) I wish I'd had the wits to say something like that at the time. I really hoped I could say something really helpful and make it a teaching moment, as you said, but I just fumbled and couldn't think of anything! I just was not ready for it at all. I'm hoping that if it happens again, I'll be a little more prepared. I spent half the day afterwards thinking "If he says this, I should say this."

Haha Pivot that's one you can look back on and laugh :)

[SisterMcKenzie]

To echo what Daisy said...

When DSD was 4, she piped up at Lunch one day to DH

"You're not with mummy anymore because you where nasty to mummy"

We diffused it saying "Oh dear, mummy sometimes days says some silly things"

Diffusing such comments works in the short term.

However be warned once a parent has crossed the line once they will do it again.
DSD is now 11 and damaged by her mother's bile and vitriol, poor kid

[RonneandFrankie]

DSS has made similar comments as well, McKenzie.
Makes me sad for the future :(