What to tell DSCs about who pays for what after divorce

[PlinkertyPlonk]

DH pays maintenance to his ex, the deal is that she buys the childrens' clothes. He has bought some things in the past, so they have some clothes when at our house (but they all end up at ex's never to be seen again), or because they had holes in their shoes etc, but we have no money currently (DH unemployed). His DCs are always asking why doesn't he just buy them xyz clothing but he just fobs them off and won't tell them what the arrangement is.

What are thoughts on telling DCs how the CSA payments work (in principle, not amounts obviously), assuming the ex is on board too?

[purpleroses]

I think you should definitely tell them that money is paid to their mum. Of their dad is working hard all week to earn money to buy them things he deserves to be recognised for that.

And of you're still paying child support (from savings? your earnings?) whilst he's unemployed then they should know that too. Ideally there should be clearcut rules about which parent pays for what that they know too, though that's obviously harder if they don't agree.

If your DP isn't paying anything whilst he's out of work then I think you can tell them that too, and that he's looking for a new job so he can give their mum more money, as well as having more to spend on them direct.

My DC and DSC are all aware that their dads (my ex and DH) pay their mums (me and DH's ex) money.

[purpleroses]

Of = if
Can't ever seem to get that right on my phone

[Happybeard]

I don't know about this one. My (now almost grown) dsd always said she never cared who paid for the things she needed. She found it really uncomfortable and says now that she felt it unfair because in a "normal" scenario parents just buy stuff kids needs together.

So if it can be avoided, then no I don't think they should be or need to be told who pays for what.

But the simple statement that non resident parents pay a sum to resident parents to cover the costs of the time their not around I think is fine. Do you think that would cut it?

[PlinkertyPlonk]

It's a tricky one. Kids are 11-14. It's the clothes that are the issue, but it's basically them trying to weedle an item that their mum won't buy or they don't have the money saved to spend. So no different to a non-divorce family in that sense. But it's when they then say 'but you never buy us any clothes' shortly followed by 'why don't you just get a job'.
We have continued to pay maintenance whilst DH is unemployed, but they don't know that.
Actually the eldest is very switched on, she must have worked out that mum buys all the clothes for a reason.

[purpleroses]

I don't know why you wouldn't tell them really. It's money that's paid to their mum for her to spend as she sees fit, but why wouldn't you want them to know that their dad's supporting them?

I can see the point that a pp said that DCs may in one sense not care who buys things but with separated parents it's not really possible for them not to be aware of who's buying them things. Why wouldn't you want them to know that their dad cares about them enough that he's doing his best to make sure they don't go without even when things are hard for him?

As an RP I'd never hide the fact that my ex gives me money from my DCs.

At that age DCs do start to have a reasonable grasp of family finances. As long as your DP doesn't tell the DCs that his ex should buy a specific item they want I think it's right fit them to know he helps support then financially.

[PlinkertyPlonk]

It's tricky because DH doesn't believe the kids should know and communication with ex is pretty stilted, (email only). If he does tell them, he will get a torrent of questions about the details and specifics, but he does anyway!

I think it's important for children to know when things are tough financially, without making them worry unduly of course, or putting any guilt or feeling of responsibility on the kids. It's an important life lesson for them.

"in a "normal" scenario parents just buy stuff kids needs together" This isn't necessarily the case. I used to get a (pitiful) allowance, but mum had her own 'piggy bank' of savings that she would occasionally dip into and buy something for me.

I'm going to have another chat with DH to see if I can persuade him to reconsider.

[sanfairyanne]

surely they know about the concept of maintenance? so either they think he is not paying any or they know he is
does he actually pay enough to cover clothes?
maybe this is more about how finances get tighter when someone is unemployed? teenagers need to know the realities. basics are covered but no fancy items/treats til everyone is working

[Letitgoletitgo]

I don't see any problem with telling them - even my 4 year old understands that one of the reasons his dad goes to work is so he can give money to me to help look after them.

I'd just explain that firstly the reason it seems that you never buy them anything is because you give money to their mother to help to look after them and for her to buy the things they need. And that secondly, of course you'd like to buy them extra things yourself on top of that but that still the moment times are a bit more difficult and you don't have any extra money, but you hope to be able to again the future.

Then just refuse to answer any questions about how much etc, just say it is between you and their mum and not to be discussed with them.

[mynewpassion]

I think it depends on how much he's paying her. If its a tenner a week for two children, I wouldn't be saying anything.

[PlinkertyPlonk]

If its a tenner a week for two children, I wouldn't be saying anything

It's more than a tenner, considerably more. In fact more than the official(CSA?) guidelines.

It's been very useful to hear a balance of responses. Given our circumstances i don't think there is any reason why they shouldn't know dad gives mum a chunk of money each month towards spending, and that they agreed that mum would buy their clothes.

[Elizabeth120914]

I don't think so either.. Dsd is 11 we have always bought clothes, school uniforms, school trips and she's always known this.

She has no problem asking me things like how much was the car I bought, our new house etc so obviously she's very inquisitive or she's told to ask by someone at home.. ??

I don't answer how much directly just say we both work hard to have these things and to buy things for you and leave it there'. Theres a big difference as no one at home works- her mum or her Oh so I do want to make the point as they are so interested in what we have that we more than do what's fair in return. We are seen as a cash box because we have more but I want her to see that she could have these things/ anyone can whose prepared to work for it.

If she wants something that we feel is reasonable and we can afford it she will normally have it, bikes etc and she has a full set of clothes at our house, bedroom etc..

[AiringDirtyLaundry]

Quite tricky, this one. In our case my DH bought his ex gf a house, a car, and also makes regular support payments. The ex gf does not work and seems very resourceful at getting things and money from others. She does not have a regular job and has worked a total of 12 weeks in the last 5 years, plus the odd boot fair, etc. She also gets financial help from her parents and, much to our bewilderment, from DH's parents as well. In the past she has claimed benefits that she wasn't legally entitled to receive so she's quite happy to take from the "rich" taxpayers, too.

In order to be near to DSS, we have chosen to stay living in a community where we both earn far, far less than we could somewhere else and this continues to negatively affect our financial security. Our social circle is a horrible rumour mill fueled by every tiny bit of gossip and I often hear about how much she struggles for money. It was her choice to leave the relationship as she left DH for another man when DSS was 4. Despite having a myriad of boyfriends and living rent-free in other people's houses (before she finally settled on which house she wanted DH to buy for her), she is a single mother so it's not hard for her to get a lot of sympathy from others. She chooses to use the support payments to support herself as well as DSS, but that is her choice and there is nothing DH can do about it.

The difference between our households couldn't be more obvious and I often wonder how DSS (14-yrs old) perceives the difference. We are by no means wealthy and often have to make sacrifices like other families, but we manage our money well. I get the distinct impression that she and her friends see DH and I as "greedy capitalists" who won't share the wealth while she struggles for every crumb of food. What they don't see is that we both work very hard and DH has given, and continues to give, more than what is legally expected of him. He just wants to do the right thing. I do worry that DSS is not aware of how much his father provides for him. We have taken him on expensive holidays, bought him expensive gifts, always make sure he has clothing, etc. but these things are never acknowledged.

We take a similar approach to you, Elizabeth120914 in that we simply try to show that, if you work hard and use your money responsibly, you give yourself more choices and opportunities. These are individual choices, whether to live on charity and embrace a life of leisure or to work to have a nice home, travel, etc. I hate that DSS should ever have to think about whether his father gives his mother enough money, but sadly I think it's a reality of split families. :-(

Oh dear, sorry for the rant! To answer your question PlinkertyPlonk I think it is important for the kids to understand that parents are providing for them. They don't need to know details and amounts but IMO they need to know that their fathers have not abandoned their responsibilities.

[thebluehen]

This is something that frustrates me. Ex wife has worked 1 year in the last 20.

The dsc have nothing but sympathy for her. I also think society in general "feels sorry" for single mums and I've heard other people praising her for raising 4 kids "on her own". The reality is dp and I work bloody long hours to financially support her and the kids whilst also looking after one of "her" children full time, and two of them a third of the time. She has far less washing, cooking and shopping to do than I do but I work full time. She has recently given up driving so doesn't even take the kids to school or give them lifts to clubs etc. Her and the kids readily expect us and friends / family to pick up the slack. If we don't, we are being "funny".

She gave her eldest some of her old cooking tins for her 18th birthday and nothing else. We spent 3k.

Do the kids respect us for working our arses off and doing everything? Of course not and I'm incredibly resentful she doesn't even take them shopping or for a bike ride.

I've had a mad few weeks trying to do everything and have run myself ragged. No idea when I can next schedule in some time for myself.

I honestly think it's not just about telling the kids where the money comes from, it's about saying "no" sometimes and until they are completely financially independent adults, I don't think they will ever really understand.

[purpleroses]

DSC's mum doesn't just live entirely off of the money DH gives her, she tells her DDs (not her DSs, mind) that the key thing to look for in a man is whether he can earn lots of money. It's apparently the first thing she asks them if they mention a new BF, or even just a male friend.

It is hard if you want to model that working hard is the best way to have a comfortable lifestyle, but feel that their other parent is undermining that by teaching girls that the way to be comfortable is to find a rich man (and then dump him for one who's working shorter hours....)

But DSC do at least know that their mum gets money from their dad. They know she doesn't conjure it out of thin air. I can't imagine why you'd want to mislead a child into thinking that their mother does that. It's not going to set them up well for later life really is it?

[fedupbutfine]

I also think society in general "feels sorry" for single mums and I've heard other people praising her for raising 4 kids "on her own"

you should try being a single mum. I can't remember any occasion whatsoever when anyone seemed to feel remotely 'sorry' for me. Most of the time I am considered aburdenonsocietywhohaschildrenshecouldn'taffordwhoisuneducatedand didn'tthinkbeforeshegotmarriedorwhyelsewouldherexhusbandnotsupporthischildrenshecouldn'tpossiblyhaveknownhimproperlycouldshe?

And that's before I contend with the long string of 'step mums' my ex brings into our children's lives who all have an opinion on what a dreadful person I am

[brdgrl]

Fedup, an awful lot (more than half, I would guess?) of the stepmums on here have been a single mum.

[brdgrl]

The kids are 11-14? Old enough to be told what the arrangement is, I think. I'd not mention actual numbers, though.

[Kundry]

At 11-14, they are old enough to know that when you are unemployed, less stuff gets bought, and that adults have to live within their means.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Tell them the truth - that maintenance is paid and all the clothes bought before ended up at mother's house and you can't afford to buy clothes that never work their way back to your house.

[Happybeard]

The bluehen - "given up driving" pahahahaaa that is hilarious! Sort of thing dsds mum would do.

I agree most of us have been single mums. Then we become single mums who are also part time mums to our step kids, and we usually have to hold down a full time jobs at the same time to support the whole lot of 'em

[thebluehen]

Fedupbutfine, I was a single mum for 7 years. No maintenance , no reliable contact and I have no extended family (all dead). I had to work, provide childcare, do all errands, housework and pay for every last sock.

So I feel I am very qualified to know what it's like.

Life is harder now even with the support of my dp.

Single parenting (and proper single parenting) was hard but very different to the juggling and unrewarding ness of step parenting.

Being a single parent who actually doesn't have to take much responsibility at all for her kids can only be easier.