Finally cracked with Disney dad and his goody goody son(185 Posts)
My husband and I have a dd aged 7 we also have his son my stepson over regularly, now since she was toddling around he has tormented her made her cry but been sly about it as in he does it when we're not in the room then denies it, so I turned detective an started leaving the room but listening in so I cud make sure what my dd was telling me was right, and it was - however if I tell him off he takes his sons side and results in a 3 way argument with dss eventually saying if I'm taking dds side then he's not coming down anymore so my hubby begs me to relent and I do to keep the peace.
However yesterday we were at the local swimming pool me and hubby taking turns to go in steam room, as I'm coming out and hubs is going in I seen him elbow her in the head on purpose - she screamed crying and he stood there laughing in her face, then he looked up seen me and said "we were playing catch and cause she couldn't catch the ball she's crying" now I've been calm for 6 years but I exploded calling him a liar and evil for laughing in her face, hubby seen this an came out took dss to one side then came back saying "we're going now you've just told him off for nothing and he's upset now" in the car on way to drop dss off I told him what I'd seen and dd told her dad what happened but he lied and hubby believes him.
I've told him I'm putting up with it no longer and he says I can't tell dss off as he will stop visiting, but to me the happiness and stability of my dd is most important. I think it's an extreme case of Disney dad and I've had enuf he now thinks he can do what he likes as his dad will always take his side. What can I do ban him from coming? Or leave my hubby?
Kaluki not kabuki sorry silly spell check xx
Thanks girls I can't stress how much reading your comments make me feel like I'm doing the best for my dd and what a nice feeling that gives me as well as cats other and petal I would also like to thank kabuki for your advice. Here is the problem I bought my house a year before I met dh, in the years I've been with him it has gone up 20k in value if I had to pay him anything in the divorce I Wundt be able to stay here, although in that time I have helped thru doing all his admin as well as working full time myself turn his business into a lucrative one he often says I'm his rock as he cudnt do without me, I spend at least 2 hours per nite after dd has gone to bed typing up quotes, invoices and preparing his tax stuff. I would honestly say 6 nights a week he is a great father to dd it's as if when dss isn't around he isn't mentioned now ( it was different when he would see me as I would insist dh picked him up for tea or if we were going anywhere) but when he sees dss I think he realises they don't have a great time together even if they do do something nice as me and dd are not there to make it fun (dh is not the best at creating a fun environment). Take last week for example he took dss bowling, he was back in an hour, I said your quick - he said dss was bored asked to go home. If me and dd were there he would have been out for at least a few hours, in a way I think he sees taking dd as a way to keep his son entertained for a bit longer but I'm not prepared to let her be with dss without me there. IMHO you don't choose which family members you see and if dss doesn't want me there then they must accept ds won't be. We are not a step family so I don't expect my dd to have a life I'm not involved in. Unless I split from her dad xxxxx
OP - if you're still reading, if nothing else, I really do think you need to start seriously investigating how to split from this "man". E.g. housing implications, money issues, contact issues and so on .... it does no harm to arm yourself with knowledge after all. I just can't see this ever working out or getting back on an even keel TBH .... even if SS disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow (which is unlikely) you'd still be left with the sure and certain knowledge that your H has allowed a child to call the shots in so many ways, that he's been prepared to completely favour SS over DD, that he's been emotionally abusive to your daughter (IMO) as well as to you, that he's undermined your position as supposedly equal adult in your household and so on. I mean, how would you ever be able to forget about all of that and carry on living a "normal" life with him ? I really don't think you could - and I think the resentment would just continue to fester ever more. Please think very seriously about what your next steps should be. I agree totally that you're doing the right thing in protecting DD from the risk of physical harm but I also think that while you stay with H she's being exposed to emotional harm as well. I can't pretend that would completely disappear if you split from him but it would surely be minimised as she wouldn't see him so often.
I really do think it'd feel like a huge weight had been lifted from both of you if you split. Sure, DD will miss her dad and won't completely understand why sad to say - but as parents we sometimes have to do stuff for our kids that we know is the best thing for them even if they don't realise it just yet.
I'm not so sure it's an elephant as much as a mammoth. I too have referred - at least 4 times I think - during the course of this almost a year old thread to the OP leaving her DH (or that should probably be H). And agree that if the father was objective and fair and treated both his children equally (with age appropriate allowances of course) then it probably wouldn't matter too much if SS continued to be a nasty little bully .... in fact, he'd be very stupid to do so if he had the sort of father who took no nonsense and disciplined as and when required because any attempt at nastiness would be immediately squashed before any damage was done to DD and SS would come off worse. If the father was on the ball and fair he'd acknowledge what his son was like and he'd keep a beady eye on what was going on - hence OP wouldn't have to feel frightened about allowing H to take both his son and daughter without her as she'd be able to trust him to do the right thing.
So yes - totally agree this is mainly an H problem as opposed to the SS per se. Having said that, although he is young, I don't think a 14/15 year old should be absolved of all personal responsibility when it comes to behaving appropriately towards a much smaller and younger child. Quite obviously he does it now because his bloody father lets him get away with it without a murmur, and quite possibly gets a kick out of the "power" this gives him, as well as reinforcing (each time he's nasty and there are no repercussions) that he's daddy's "favourite". However .... I'd question if he does behave the same way to all other younger kids he comes across - like in school, or at activities ? I bet he doesn't, because a) he knows it's wrong and b) it wouldn't be stood for. In that case, he makes a conscious choice when he's foul to DD and I personally think he should bear some of the responsibility for that regardless of the fact his pathetic father condones it. In other words, jut because you can get away with doing something wrong, doesn't make it right. So I quite understand why the OP feels so resentful and hostile towards the SS.
Though remember she hasn't banned him from the house, and, she has said that she's willing to bring DD along on these days out herself - but the boy has vetoed that .... which of course, shouldn't bloody well be his call.
I've said before that I think now - in view of the length of time this has been going on - and the H's entrenched position, that the OP hasn't got a chance he's going to come round and parent his older child properly. He's not even parenting the younger one properly as he's continually shit-stirring - goading the little girl with tales of fancy days out and painting mummy as the bad guy. It must make the DD feel very stressed and torn between both her parents and he's putting her in a completely unfair and unacceptable position. What sort of decent parent treats their children so differently - and what sort of decent parent badmouths the other parent to a child (irrespective of whether they're justified in feeling angry) ?
I feel very strongly the OP should start planning a split - for her daughter's sake as well as her own. I fear she could easily end up having a nervous breakdown with the stress of this situation and the appalling way her H is treating her. However, regardless of what us lot of strangers think, actually splitting from someone is rarely simple and these days, with the cost of living and benefit cuts etc there's no escaping the fact that it's not an easy thing to embark upon and many women in the OP's position would have to make long term plans before they could actually do the deed. Whether we think that's right or wrong, until the OP actually leaves him - or tells him to piss off - then good god of course she has to protect her daughter because the child's own father is absolutely blind to any harm she may come to if it involves the untouchable older child. I suspect also that at the back of the OP's mind is how things would pan out if they did split and DD had contact with her dad ..... clearly, he couldn't be trusted to see the two children separately, and therefore, there's a significant risk that DD may be hurt again. It is possible to arrange supervised contact, but again, this isn't something you can just conjure up at will and the OP would need to take legal advice (IMO) in regard to that particular issue before feeling confident enough to split - when she'd be less able to protect DD from seeing SS than she is now.
Mikulkin if you read my post at 1050 yesterday you will see that I agree with you that OP's biggest problem is her DH and I can't imagine why she is still with him after all this. But like Petal says leaving a marriage is a huge decision, its easy for us to say LTB but this is someone's whole life here.
Until OP is ready to leave him she has to protect her DD at all costs. Surely you agree with that?
Mikulkin - we DO see the elephant in the room, and we DO realise that this is ultimately a problem between the OP and her DH. However, it's up to the OP to decide whether or not she wants to leave her DH - and we all accept that leaving a marriage is an enormous thing to do - but if she decides to stay, then we need to help her live with the situation.
I apologise for saying the word stupid btw that was out of order
My son still asks to see his brother though does that mean as a parent you should not make decisions that will keep your children safe regardless of how they feel or what they want?
Physical abuse is the same as sexual abuse to a child especially with the age gap like this situation and my own. It's not split into sexual physical and emotional - it's about the older sibling enforcing power and control over the younger child.
The op has a right to protect her dc how she sees fit and answer any questions about it later in life when her child is old enough to understand her reasons.
Things, sexual abuse is completely different story so your comparison is out of place here. This is about pushing, picking on which could happen between any siblings, sexual abuse is not smth which could or should happen between siblings. I also do not appreciate people being rude, and I think you are being rude by saying that my comment sounds stupid.
Kaluki, if I believed that my dd wouldn't be protected by her father I wouldn't be with this man in the first place. Op is still with her husband isn't she?
Petal, thanks for a very good comment - I think OP and people who support her keep not seeing elephant in the room. This is not a problem between OP's DSS and DD this is a problem between OP and her DH. If op is scared for her dd knowing her DH will be with them then how can she live with such a man? If the tormenting is so bad that dd shouldn't go there shouldn't her father be concerned too? If he doesn't it sound like he either truly believes the communication will be fine or he is horrible father. If it is the former then I stand by my point that dd should be able to meet with her half sibling and start from clean sheet. If it is the latter then why on earth op is still with her DH and why do you all suggest she doesn't send dd instead of explaining to her that she shouldn't live with the man who allows his DD being tormented?
Have any of you considered how confused poor DD is? Her DF says she should go, she doesn't remember anything bad and her DM wouldn't let her? Give her a couple of years and she will ask her DM:" how could you not let me go if my DF is there? If anything goes wrong he would protect me" what are you going to answer then, OP?
By mikulkins thinking I should give it a couple of years and let my SS come and visit again, after all he was 'only' 12 when he decided to sexually abuse my ds, if I wait then forgive him he can come back into ds life stronger and more manipulative maybe more able to silence ds with threats, maybe he could then continue his abuse of my son...
Or maybe I could invite exp round as I'm sure even though he used to beat and rape me it'd be really nice to have his company.
Of course both of the above are said sarcastically
Get real mikulkins how stupid does your comment sound?
Would you seriously send your young daughter off out for the day knowing she could be physically hurt by an older child, and not protected by the adult in charge?
This is made a million times worse when you remember that the “adult in charge” is the girl’s father. This whole story has shocked me – to think that a man would be happy to watch his small daughter come to harm, just to keep the perpetrator sweet?
Mikulkin - would you seriously send your young dd off out for the day knowing she could be physically hurt by an older child and not protected by the adult in charge?
Quest - I agree with Catsmother and Petal. Your DH is disgusting and abusive to you and your DD and I can't believe you haven't kicked his sorry arse out of your life!!
Quest that's exactly what he's doing, and so far it's working. Please don't let it come between you and your dd.
Cats mother u posted the same time as me thanks for explaining the situation, when I read what you have written if it was anyone else I would instantly say the dh was in the wrong but my dh so tries to drum it into me I'm the guilty party. Let's put it this way if DSS wanted to behave nicely around dd and not try to make himself look like an angel he would come down, the fact he's got away with it for years and now he's been caught red handed means he will be under constant watch and won't be able to keep up the nice act and so runs the risk of being caught in the act by me and dh at the same time, dh would not be able to brush it under the carpet then and Disney child status along with all the treats wud be lost. He has no incentive to come see me and dd again he is getting treats every week and more expensive presents for bdays and Christmas, what 15 year old would give that up to see his stepmum and sister? Xxx
Thank you cats mother and petal for your support over the long time this has been going on, if I post for advice you 2 are always there and I appreciate it more than words can say. Cats mother as for the 2 tier system you say about this is his doing I wud be happy for him to see his ds then come home and say nowt to add and she wudnt know what they had been doing but he persists and I think is trying to get dd in a position where she resents me from stopping her doing things. Mikulin I have always said DSS is wlcome Here and if I can go out with them me and dd will come it is him who refuses to be around me as he knows he won't be able to get away with his behaviour and god forbid runs the risk of dh seeing what he's capable of. Once again petal and cats mother thank you for all your support and everyone else who has posted and made me feel like I am doing the right thing for my dad. Xxx
If you read the whole thread Mikulkin you will see that there has been a long established pattern of bullying behaviour from the older child towards the youngest. This is not one single incident.
In addition, the older child is never disciplined - no matter what he does - so feels able, and inappropriately, given both his age and the fact that he is not the most important member of the family, to effectively lay down the law and "refuse" to come to the OP's house unless she "apologises".
The boy's father has made no attempt to explain to him that this is unreasonable. In fact he's done quite the opposite for around a year now - rewarding a long history of spiteful behaviour with expensive presents and flash days out. By doing this he's sending the message to his son that he (the dad) thinks his wife was in the wrong for having the temerity to tell him off when he was particularly nasty (and it sounded long overdue). So the dad has undermined his partner, and basically given him no reason to come back to the house and have a normal relationship because, most 15 year olds would find it far more attractive to keep playing the drama queen when they're rewarded so strongly.
The OP has not banned this child from her house BTW. She simply and quite understandably doesn't want to place her DD in a situation without her where again and again she's been subjected to nastiness by a much older and bigger child. Past experience has shown that very sadly, she can't trust her DH - DD's own father - to deal with any such behaviour from the older child in an effective manner .... where the bully would be disciplined, and where the younger child would therefore actually feel like her own dad gave a flying fuck about her wellbeing.
Of course, I concede that maybe the SS won't be sly and nasty again ..... but good grief, in the OP's shoes would you really take that risk in the light of such a significant back history ? Why the hell should she expose her daughter to that risk, knowing that her DH will almost certainly turn a blind eye, make light, and quite probably hide any such incident from the OP ?
"If he is not nice to her she will tell and you can stop contact again" ...... riiiiggghhhtt, so it doesn't matter if SS thumps her because hey, she can stop contact again and all will be right with the world. FFS - how will that little girl feel if her brother hurts her and her own mum hasn't protected her by sending her into that situation. Plus of course her dad won't give a damn because he's too scared to rock the boat with the boy-who-can-do-no-wrong-no-matter-what-he does.
Let's not forget what a nasty shit the dad here seems to be too. He's quite happy to mess with his own daughter's mind - deliberately upsetting her and goading her by repeatedly telling her what a fantastic time he's had with SS. Apparently he does this so the DD "knows" how unfair her mum's being. In other words, he's using his daughter as a weapon to get at his wife. Regardless of the psychological damage he could be causing. He's pathetic and irresponsible.
And I should imagine that if DD was being bullied at school, for years, where no-one was taking it seriously, and the bully was never disciplined, and the school appeared not to care, that the OP probably would keep her away from such a school ..... just as many poor parents have had to do when their concerns weren't being addressed properly (this topic crops up on these boards quite regularly).
I personally think the OP should LTB, and insist that future contact between dad and DD takes place under supervision because he simply cannot be trusted to look after both his children with equal care and concern. In effect, it reads to me that he's prepared to sacrifice the well being and safety of his younger child in order to keep the older one "sweet".
He is 15 for God's sake, he was 14 when he did what he did. You are punishing both him and your DD for life because of the mistakes he did at 14. Why don't you give him a benefit of doubt and let your dd to go once. If he is not nice to her she will tell and you can stop contact again. But you can't hold a grudge against a boy for the rest of your life. He is not adult and it is not like he endangered her in the past, he bullied her, that happens in school too. Would you stop her from going to school or to any public place for the rest of her life?
Let your dd make this choice. I think you got carried away in your fight with DH and forgot what this was about.
I concur vile man it's not for your dd to know at all, it's him to bloody points score and get one over on you. A prime example of a parent using the child as a weapon against the other parent. Vile man.
I want her to know what you're making her miss out on
Nice passive aggressive EA shit there
Quest, please keep posting. You'll get a lot of support here, whatever you decide to do. Please don't disappear.
His response to me saying stop saying things to her would be to say well I want her to know what your making her miss out on. He is oblivious to the fact that his son caused this situation with his behaviour and is carrying it on by refusing to see me. He thinks its all my fault and the son can do no wrong in his eyes. He's away working for a week left today if I can see the difference this week I may ask him to leave. Thank you for your constant support help and advice xxx
Playing not plating!
You need to leave this man.He will damage your dd and this will stay with her for the rest of her life.She is being taught that his ds is more important than she will ever be.I would leave him and ensure he had as little contact as possible.He's plating mind games with a child.Sick.
Ha ha Petal !!
FWIW, my advice would be exactly the same as all of you who've posted since the OP updated.
This is a gobsmackingly awful and emotionally abusive situation - there's so much wrong with it I don't know where to start. IMO, I think his attitude and behaviour is emotionally abusive to you Quest (as well as to your DD) .... it's appalling and disgusting that he's using your daughter - his daughter too - to score points off you. It reads as if he's hurting her to get at you. How the fucking hell (excuse my language but I'm furious on your behalf) can he spend the sort of money he does on his son but thinks it's okay for his daughter to get so much less. I actually agree that of course good times can be had without spending very much at all but that's not the point is it ?
I just don't see how this situation can be sustained without your daughter becoming emotionally damaged - and she'll be getting more and more aware of the two-tier stance her own dad is happy to take as she gets older - and without you exploding with resentment, or, and I'm genuinely concerned about this .... succumbing to depression and/or a breakdown with the stress and strain of being treated with such contempt, and living with your daughter's mistreatment on a regular basis.
I think you should LTB too - sorry. Lunar's 1st sentence sums him up perfectly.
And if you're worried that once you split he'd take DD to see SS on his contact time, I think you have every right to place contact on a formal court ordered basis with it taking place in a contact centre (i.e. away from SS) - for the very good reason that he can't be trusted to protect DD from SS (or to tell the truth for that matter).
I know that splitting probably wouldn't change his attitude but at least DD wouldn't then have to live with someone she's getting to know sees her as a second class citizen.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.