dropping out of university - what next?

[silverfrog]

right, this could be a long one, so apologies first of all for that.

I also want ot make it clear, right now, that I do love dsd, she is fab, we get on well (generally), and that I have absolutely no problem with supporting her - she is part of the family, obviously. (that's just to pre-empt the "oh, but you've always resented her/step mums never want to support their partners children/whatever" replies that may pop up )

so.

dsd is 21. she has some learning dificulties - dyslexia, mild Aspergers. the iggest problems caused by these are actually the fact that she has never learnt ot deal with them, or how to apply herself - doesn't really know how to work, I suppose.

she is currently at university. she is in her 2nd year, and is unlikely to make it thorugh to the third year. she took an alternative route - via diplomas and nvq (or equivalent, I must confess I am not up to date with what the current vocational quals are - there are many, and having spent years going through all the options I am still just as ), and is now on a foundation degree course, which then converts to a normal degree for final year (as I understand it). this is what she will not be able to do.

dh pays her tuition fees, and a generous maintenance amount (£400+ per month).

so, she isnow saying she is unlikely to go on to do the third year (which in dsd speak means she nows she will not get it). and is talking about doing more courses. all very vague, and has nothing actually lined up as yet.

the implication, of course, is that dh will fund the course, and pay maintenance, just as he is doing now.

dh & I do not htink that any course she will do will actually improve job prospects. it is likely to be along the lines of more nvqs, at the level below what she is doing now. it seems she just is not capable of applying herself to do harder work.

dh is, quite obviously, reluctant to just fund course after course after course. and there comes a point where maintenance needs to stop too - she is 21, and needs to live by her own means at some point.

wwyd?

we are quite well off, and dsd is unlikely to evr be able to earn at a level which keeps her in the style which she grew up. dh knows htis, and is happy to subsidise, but how to go about subsidising, without either the expectation of more to come, or so that dsd ends up not really doing anything and just living off daddy?

it is a tricky situation. dh's current position is that if she makes an effort, and gets a job, he is thinking he will stump up deposit for flat/top up mortgage or rent once she has proved she can do the hard work. but if he tells her this, she will sit back, and revert to helplessness.

life is complicated by the fact that dh and his ex do not get on, and there has been a substantial amount of brainwashing that has gone on over the years. if dh stops the maintnenance, he will be the bad guy, but that in itself is not a reason to carry it on (at least not without input form dsd)

it is all such a muddle, and I oculd do with some opinions, please

[ladydeedy]

oh dear oh dear oh dear.... at 21 though she should be making her own life. She could be married with children at this age. Admirable that she wants to study but I think as your DH has supported her this far and she has decided not to continue in this line of study in particular, the rest of the journey is on her own. She will not be destitute - she could get a student loan and work in the holidays and pay her loan back once she starts earning, so there's support for her.
I think to continue to be supported by parents, at her age, is not appropriate (regardless of how well off you are or are not). It's great that he wants to help her once she's shown she can apply herself to something, but she needs to prove that first.
I wouldnt worry about the ex. She may try to continue to brainwash her daughter, but at 21... she should be making up her own mind. I wouldnt let that fear be a reason for continuing to pay.... when would it ever end??

[WinterLover]

I agree with ladydeedy. I went to uni part time and worked full time to subsidise it. Granted it was hard work but it felt good not relying on my parents who at a push could have sent me to uni full time.

[silverfrog]

well, yes, that is the problem - when would it end?

but I htink we cannot dismiss dsd's learning difficulties out of hand.

she can (and does, when stood over, and spoonfed) work hard. but of course, she cannot go on expecting that level of input and support.

the age appropriate thing comes into play too - she is immature, due to her difficulties, but of course does not see herself as so.

it is not so much that hse has chosen to not continue this line of study (although there is an element of that to it - if she could/did apply herself she owuld be ok), but that she is not capable of it. except she is, but doesn't step up. it is a fine line.

she has, all her life, been told (by her mother) that if she cannot do something, that is ok (which is true, as long as effort is put in) - form maths homeowrk, to telling the time (she still cannot do this accurately), to learning to cook (she relies on ready meals. again ok, except she is not funding this, and would not be able to on a wage from a job she can actually get, iyswim?)

basically, the bottom line is she should not be at university at all - she should have gained her nvqs, and then gone down the apprenticeship/learning on the job route. this suits her well.

but there is a reluctance ot accept this on her mother's part, coupled with an odd belief that if she just tries another foundation degree all will be ok. and it won't. but of course, it is not her mother paying the bills, so that doesn't bother her as much.

the fact is that at 21 dsd is not making up her own mind - she is very much influenced by her mother still (we saw her last weekend, and gave her some info re: apprenticeships that she could look into/apply for - her first words? "I'll check with mum whether htis is a good idea")

so, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, I guess.

she does, and probably will, always need extra support. we are no stranger to this idea - dd1 has severe ASD, and needs high levels of support and always will. but the difference in disability is enormous - dd1 is never oging to be able ot be indpendent in any way. dsd could be, and should be, but will still need support.

we do not think it right, for example, that hse should (over her lifetime, not right now!) be worse off than the rest of the family, bcause she will not have that high-flying job/exponential earning power duw to her difficulites.

but how to get over this bit in the middle? where we have to get her working for her own self esteem, and prove to her that hse can stand on her own 2 feet, and work/earn/live by herself?

[lubeybooby]

Has she had any assistance with 'pastoral' care/acessability etc at the university?

My brother has aspergers and has found his time at uni really difficult, but his tutor and the support in place for ASD issues has been great and he wants to stay on now and try to finish

[Snuppeline]

Get her to talk to the support services at her university, they should be able to help with the dyslexia if not the aspergers. The councelling services can help support ont he aspergers front and there are muriads of free courses to take from both services to increase her chances of pulling through a degree successfully (study skills, motivational and procrastination issues and how to deal with those, exam fears - the lot). She should also contact careers services on campus to get them to advise her of the job prospects she will have if she completes her degree or goes down a different route. They should also be able to advise on careers she might like based on her personality. Lastly she should speak to her tutor and get that person to help her in realistically assessing what she could possibly do to pull through to complete what she has started, perhaps what she will have to redo in order to go on to the next stage. All this is nearly a bit late if tutor and others aren't already aware of her issues but its not necessarily too late. She should get on with it though.

If she fails to engage with any of the suggested areas of support above I would cut funding for her but otherwise I would give her a break. If she has aspergers but has not had special support at uni, and also struggels with dyslexia its no wonder she hasn't done all that well. A second chance for a different route into a degree, if your dh can afford it, wouldn't be a bad idea either for her long term future and happiness so long as that second chance is taken in the right spirit (her working hard and using the support the university offers). But it might be worth taking proper advise from a professional, private, careers advise service with regards to the sort of work she could reasonably do and aim for a degree/vocational course which enables that. This stint at uni should be a lesson to her about hard work etc but perhaps a lesson to your dh too about the sort of support his dd needs, maybe he or you can be more involved next time, guiding her choices and influencing her to work? Just a thought.

[Snuppeline]

Sorry your second post Silverfrog shed more light on the issue. It would seem like she needs more guidance, perhaps from someone outside and perhaps with both your dh and the mother present so that the mother gets the picture too?

[silverfrog]

she has a lot of support form the uni. they are aware of her issues, and always have been.

honeslt,y and I know this sounds harsh, but the issue stems from dsd not actually knowing what hard work is.

please odn't think that we do not "count" her difficulties. dh & I are fully aware of them, and have done as much as we can to support her. we do try to talk through options, but as mentioned before - if the options are not sanctioned by her mother, then they are a non-starter.

she is on a vocational course, in a subject area she loves (theatre). it is a practical course - the lighting/sound/set construction. she is good (ish) at this, but still needs constant direction/support/encouragemnt. the bit she finds hardest is taing responsibility for things. she would be an excellent set builder, for eg, but her mother has insisted she take shtis degree in stage management - dsd cannot cope with the stage management part. she cannot direct other people, she can barely manage her own affairs without prompting and support (and I mena that in the nicest way) - she cannot take responsibility for a team of people. she needs someone to defer to, to ask assistance from (a little too much, as I said before - this is her biggest problem area). but she is not being taught (as far as we can see) to deal with this.

her motivation is zero, apart form the motivation of not wanting to be in full time employment, and the fact that "everyone goes to uni" - she wants the experience more than the degree, iyswim?

we cannot guide her choices, as whatever we say is rubbished (usually until the last moment, and then suddenly taken up again as somehting her mother has thought of ). influencing her work? again not really possible. this is going to sound incredibly harsh - but i have said the same thing about my own dd - dsd is expert at manipulaiton. so, she asks for help with ehr wor. fine. I am happy ot help.

except dsd doesn't want help - she wants full support, going through all the work, and ultimately me (or whoever) doing most of it. we have had this time and again, right since I met her (when she was 10). she has never been taught how to work on her own, and if I (or dh) push htis, she just goes back to her mum's, where she knows the work will be done for her (her mum does not spend the time to wean her off this full support) - her mum takes the line of least resistance, as it were.

we have been asking her since Christmas to talk to student services re: job orutes/career paths, but she hasn't. likewise info ffrom tutor - we do think that she is capable of the work needed to finish this degree (with support, obviously), but there does come a time when she has to front up with some responsibility, and some work ethic. and that is the bit where she falls down.

[silverfrog]

snuppeline - good idea re: third party mediation. I wonder whether dh and ex could both meet with ehr tutor, amybe, and talk all this through.

I will suggest that.

what info we have had has been a bit muddled, via dsd. not sure whether we are just not being given the full story, or whether she is not understanding the bigger picture. that would be one thing that could be ironed out.