Weak and scared biological dads - why???

[roxron]

So interested in all the comments regarding being a stepmother - it seems the common denominator in all this are weak dads who all seem unable to parent their children properly - little ones and big ones and they all appear to put up with rudeness and bad behaviour.

My DP is a lovely kind and considerate man but he has this ridiculous change of personality too when his kids (big ones) visit, he turns into a complete sap and puts up with crap on TV all weekend, lying in bed till all hours and a general taking over of our home - he just grins stupidly and shrugs but he has no qualms in putting my girls in their place - weird.

Is this guilt or a strange phenomenon (hope spelling right!!)that changes these Dads into doormats - be interested in any views!!

[foolio]

Hi RoxRon

I believe you may have created a new term for this -first we had Disney Dad, now we have DOORMAT DAD! Love it!

Yes I've experienced this too. My DP thinks my nephew is a little you know what, but has actually said about his own DD "You know, I think she is an almost perfect kid".

????

[tallpoppies]

Oh god yes....my dh lets his sons get away with murder while treating my dd very differently! Saying that, I am the disciplinarian for all of them so he doesn't ever have to do that side of parenting as such, it's more the attitude he has of her behaviour.

DD equally has no boundaries set when she is with my ex! What is it with these men?

I know I am a strict mum but feel like I have to be because if I didn't set rules and expect certain standards of behaviour then the kids would grow up to be rude and spoilt with no manners. I wish sometimes I could get to be the relaxed "nice" parent though - it's a much easier role!

[RhiRhi123]

Hiya,

I know what u mean I think it's due to the fact that they are the NRP so they feel they let their DC down in some way by not always being around for them. I have the same problem there is no discpline in our house when my DSS comes to stay unless I enforce it and being the SM this isn't always easy/possible. I wish my DH would enforce it a bit more but his way of thinking is that 'i don't want to be shouting/arguing all weekend as i don't see DS much' This is fair enough but it doesn't help anyone or make for a happy weekend! I don't think they will ever change! (hmm)

[roxron]

It's comforting to hear from you all with similar experiences - I always feel that my stepchildren go home thinking I am a really moody cow - but that's because my DP doesn't take control and I spend all weekend making faces at him to try to get my message over to him when they are taking over my home and in the end - my stress levels are through the roof and I withdraw and must have a face like thunder. If wish DP would understand if he took control and dealt with them being a pain - it would be so much easier. He tells me to say something, but he knows I won't - maybe I should but then I'm sure they would go home thinking I'm a neurotic moaner who controls their Dad and, of course their Mum would love that. I think DP would rather the kids disliked me than him and that's why he never says anything to them - he would rather deal with me being angry once they're gone. It really is a pain and making faces all weekend isn't very funny!!!!!!

[RhiRhi123]

Roxron you could actually be me! I don't work hard all week to have to work hard all weekend just to have to go back to work on monday. If my DH put in place a few more rules - like no eating in the bedroom - I wouldn't mind but the plates and rubbish etc get left on the floor for me to clear up! I feel like i'm always moody I don't shout or anything just pull faces like u say!

[Drizzela]

I beleive it is guilt. My DP was like this when I met him and it soon became very clear that his ex piled A LOT of guilt on to him because he was the one that chose to leave. Despite the fact it took two of them to break down the marriage.

Even though he has always had DSD for at least half of the week and often more. It was commented at every available opportunity that her mother is the real parent and he is little more than an inconvenience, a let down, and a wallet.

Once they can (if they can) let go of the guilt, this behaviour seems to subside.

[Grandhighpoohba]

I think weak is a bit harsh. Quite frankly, fathers are forced into a weak position in many contact arrangements. And I would be scared too if I felt that I was at real risk of losing touch with my kids.

There is a very real fear that if they discipline their child, the child will decide that they do not want to come to their dad's any more, and they will lose them. Also, fear that their ex will accuse them of being too hard, or say that the kids don't enjoy access and use it as an excuse to block contact.

I think that it must be very difficult for a parent to parent normally when they only see their child every second weekend, not least because you cannot enforce any consequences while the child is not in your home. I think that when living arrangements are more 50/50, it is much easier for fathers to be a parent, and not just an indulgent relative whose home the kids only visit.

[prettyfly1]

I second grandhighpooba - this is my experience of differences in the way kids are treated - for men to step up in a seperated parenting situation the law needs to support them a lot better.

[NHAN]

Well my OH is just a weak pathetic idiot :)
He will avoid confrontation at all costs with everyone except me and will sit back and allow his children to behave apallingly then suddenly shout at them. He knows thats worse than actually disciplining them and he also knows that if he isn't a decent father figure to them they won't respect him as they get older but he's still hopeless.
His ex will never stop contact, although she threated it many times as soon as we called her bluff she panicked and was really nice to us.
I think some of it is he is jealous if they like me so if I have to tell them off because he doesn't then they like him more.
If he was always nice to them and giving them things I could understand him not disciplining them but he just seems totally indifferent and shows no emotion at all.
It might be guilt or it might be a severe head in the sand. His ex heavily involves him and I in their lives so he has no worries he will be excluded and if they decide they don't want to see him i'm sure it will be on account if his uselessness not because he told them off.

[weegiemum]

My mother was like this when I was a teenager (she was the NRP).

I despised her for it then - I still do.

[Nagaseli]

I lost ALOT of respect for my ex when I realised he was frighetend to death of a 12 year old girl. His own DD.

When she'd been in trouble, he would pace around fretting about it before taking her dinner up to her room for her, complete with chocolate bars etc and I'd hear him creeping in her room and tip toeing around her and talking all babyish to her - then he'd come down and say something like "phew! I think she's forgiven us!!" wtf??

I once said I fancied a take-away. He said "Oh I don't know - we better not - if DD finds out they'll be world war 3 on!" ???!!!!

It was all a little ridiculous. Especially when he'd then have the cheek to say to me "you shouldn't let your son dictate to you!"

Black. Pot. Kettle.

[pleasechange]

grandhighpoohba - you speak the truth, that's exactly how I see the situation. In very many circumstances, the pwc, supported by the courts, forces the nrp into an impossible situation. No say whatsoever in how the children are being brought up, yet have to deal with it, and the added difficulties of having a family in one house living to one set of rules/standards, and the dynamic completely changing every other weekend.

roxron "I always feel that my stepchildren go home thinking I am a really moody cow - but that's because my DP doesn't take control and I spend all weekend making faces at him to try to get my message over to him when they are taking over my home and in the end - my stress levels are through the roof and I withdraw and must have a face like thunder" - Are you me?!

[tallpoppies]

I disagree with the reasons many dads are weak and think it has nothing to do with fear over loss of contact. Granted I can only speak from personal circumstances but I think these dads would behave that way regardless. Honestly, do most of you really think your dh's fear that if they told their child off for bad behaviour that contact would be taken away?

No, they want to be seen as the "lovely daddy", may also be carrying around a certain amount of guilt over the break-up and so over-indulge their children.

It is also far easier to parent this way and let's face it many men will do anything for an easy life.

My ex and my dh have no reason to fear loss of contact with their children - yet they still lack the ability to really think about the practicalities of raising children and parent by allowing their respective kids to pretty much do as they please "as long as they are having fun"!

When dd goes to her dad's, I honestly don't think he has ever prepared a meal for her. They go to restaurants, take-aways, his mother's, his sister's his friends houses. He still takes all his washing (and dd's when she is there) to his 70 odd year old mum for her to wash and iron - she even bring it back and hangs it up for him now as when she used to leave it on his dining table it would sit there for weeks.

He buys her whatever she wants in terms of presents which isn't necessarily teaching her the value of money, she doesn't value or cherish the things she already has but knows that she just has to mention something new she wants and it will be bought for her. He hasn't been able to afford to pay cm for 2 years though!

My dh is no better. His sons live with us (mum is dead) so no reason to fear loss of contact. His only consuming thought is playing with them and making their life happy. He had a strop on sunday because I went for a nap (38 weeks pregnant) and he had to make them a sandwich for dinner. He has never had to care "practically" for his children either and I strongly think that he would be unable to cope with it! He hates it when I tell his boys off for something and will take their side in front of me rather than discussing it with me away from the children at a later point.

There may well be a minority of dad's who act this way because they fear lack of contact but judging from the "disneydad" threads and comments on here I think the problem is more widespread than that.

Who is really to blame though? Are we making it easy for them to act this way by taking up the slack?

Honestly, while it is unfair that in the majority of cases the mum will get custody of the children, how many of you think that the dad would want custody if it meant he were a single parent and didn't have the back-up of a new partner, mum, sister or nanny? How many of them would fit their job around a sick child, school holidays, after school clubs etc? How many of your partners went for full custody and were refused by the court? There may be an automatic assumption that the mum will always get pc but how many of them fought for it?

[weegiemum]

tallpoppies what you write is very interesting and I think there is a lot in it.

Just says more than ever what a great Dad I have who fought for and got custody of 3 children in 1983 (!!) and fitted it all in round his work/holidays etc. He's a hero!

[roxron]

I do understand Grandhighpoohba's comments especially when younger children are involved because there are outside influences and a careful line has to be taken but what about the Dads of older and adult children when these influences don't need to be considered anymore - believe me it is no different.

My DP recently suffered a mild heart attack and all the kids duly rushed to his bedside - his 20 year old son waited until myself and my daughter went for a coffee and then promptly told his father that he (the son) had suffered a panic attack and had to have paramedics called. When we left the hospital my DP called me back and in a terrible state said he was going to discharge himself because he was so worried over his son. I was so angry that the son had done this and my daughter who did know about the panic attack was livid as she had told the son not to tell his Dad at that point in his recovery and that evening the son was happily guzzling cans of beer and eating KFC (so much for panic attacks)while DP was lying in a hospital bed stressed out about him.

The point of this story is that my lovely DP cannot see how selfish he son had been and blamed this behaviour on the fact that the son was the youngest and couldn't cope with the situation and needed to off-load on someone - why couldn't he say the boy was out of order and cause everyone a great deal of upset. I cannot understand it and now I'm not going to try to anymore - suffice to say DP is now fine - thank god.

PS - so good to hear I not the only making faces at weekends!! (Only now I have to be even more patient as my stepchildren now will not tolerate me being moody at all - too stressful for Dad!!)

[Grandhighpoohba]

Thing is, I'm lucky in that DH has never been a disney dad, but I still remember his terror when his ex encouraged his children to see her idiot boyfriend as their father, and announced that she was moving away with the children. It didn't happen by the way, DH ended up with full custody, but I remember how every time she didn't like exactly how he was parenting, she would come round and threaten to reduce contact. It felt like we were under permanent scrutiny. I can understand how in that situation, many take the path of least resistance, even though it is not ultimately in the best interests of their relationship with their kids. I think it is much easier to see that from the outside of the relationship

[Grandhighpoohba]

Oh, and referring to them as "biological dads" is, I think, placing a further barrier between them and their children. They are just dads. No further definition is required. It implies that their role is merely sperm donation, which is not helpful when trying to understand why they are not actively parenting. I think it speaks to our attitude towards these men's roles in their children's lives.

[roxron]

Agreed - but why is it they act so differently with their own children and find fault and feel okay to discipline their step children - it is such a complicated situation and I speak only from personal experience - but my OH does have double standards at times and it is so frustrating.

[theredhen]

I have known a few single Dad's who all seem to have women falling over themselves to help this "poor man" who looks after his kids all the time. If the children misbehave, it's "a shame and obviously because they don't have a Mum looking after them and their Dad is so good with them".

Of course if a single mother has badly behaved children and asks for help with childcare, then she is not seen in anywhere nearly as good a light as the single Dad. How many single mothers are seen as hero's just because they bring their kids up?!