DS currently medically unfit for school - what will happen for Part 4 if he gets a statement? a

[pannetone]

DS age 12 HFA and anxiety has been off school since Jan (and so has 'missed' most of Y7). He is still on the roll of his mainstream comp but we just about certain he won't manage to go back there. The indi EP report we got recommends a setting with smaller classes and ASD experience. We agree and tried on a few occasions to get DS to do taster sessions at a school which on paper is suitable. But despite being on medication for anxiety and the offer of support from a TA, DS was too anxious even to get into one lesson.

We don't know if in time DS will be able to 'manage' the school or whether we haven't yet found a suitable one. He can't be offered a place at that school because they can't say if they can meet needs as he hasn't completed taster days.

After 6 months (!) away from school DS finally got home tuition from the LA which will continue in Sep. Ds is struggling with the home tuiton because he wants to be part of a class _ and one to one tuition is so far removed from that. So we have decided to sign DS up for internet school (Interhigh) from Sep (which we will pay for) - and DS will also have a couple of sessions each week with the tutor.

I've been told my LA won't pay for internet school - but is this what I should be asking for in my parental views towards SA as it is what DS needs as an 'interim measure'? Ultimately DS wants to be back in school. Can a statement only set out how needs are going to be met at the current time? If we got internet school on the statement would we then have to go back and put our case for a specialist school later?

Thanks

[babiki]

Well we were in a very different situation, but we managed to keep ds another year at preschool and he will start SS next year and both of these are written in part 4 - preschool plus home education from September 2014 and SS from September 2015 - so it's possible to have 2 'settings' written in part 4.

We were also unsure if we will find suitable SS before Tribunal ( we did in the end), and if we didn't, our advocate said it would be possible to get 'suitable specialist school' written instead of particular SS.

Good luck!

[AgnesDiPesto]

I would suggest you phrase it as a transition process with specialist school the objective. Ask indi EP to add a recommendation about how to transition your DS from home tutor to school setting and use internet school as a stepping stone. I would also suggest asking specialist school to be part of transition so for eg working with your DS at home first and then accompanying him to school. And don't make it time limited but based on achieving certain steps along the transition.

[pannetone]

Thank you babiki and Agnes. It does make much more sense for the Statement (that DS will hopefully get!) to set out both interim provision and the ultimate objective. It does seem a good idea to actually have the transition process spelt out in terms of achieving steps because it is now apparent that for DS it isn't 'just' a case of finding a suitable school - he needs support to get to it.

Which is actually rather like the position I am in with DD so very useful advice. In her case (she is 9, HFA, anxiety and selective mutism) we found a suitable school and she managed enough sessions (but only ever part days) that the school have said they can meet needs. BUT DD's anxiety is such that it was very hard to get her in for those sessions. The school have suggested doing some 'home visits' so I will try to get those written in as a transition process for her. Again assuming she gets her statement....

[ouryve]

What Agnes said.

And, would it be possible to persuade the school you have in mind to do a familiarisation home visit for your DS as a prelude to an assessment? I know that some schools which specialise in particularly anxious children will do this as part of a preliminary evaluation process. (It is in their interests to keep up an inflow of DC that LAs can't accommodate, after all, so often worth the effort to them.)

DS1 bottled it completely on his first assessment visit to his school. He aced the maths assessment, then panicked when literacy was introduced and came home crying and angry. He'd already visited the school in an informal context and really wanted it to work and was so despondent. After a lengthy email discussion with staff at the school, they did manage to evaluate his literacy, though.

He's there now, though and his transition's taken half a term and they're willing to pull back again in September. I don't think that's going to be necessary, though. All the old school fear is gone and he's actively looking forward to going to school in the morning and quite upset that tomorrow is the last day of term. He put a huge pile of kisses on a little card for his teacher, this evening!

[ouryve]

And that was the ultimate x-post!

[OneInEight]

It maybe that you haven't found the right school yet as you do need one that is prepared to work very, very slowly to help with the anxiety. If they are not prepared to do this then I think it is the wrong school for someone with anxiety. ds2 for example managed 10 minutes in the classroom on his first day but is now in the classroom most of the time. He still has periods where he needs time apart and the school seem happy to facilitate this.

[pannetone]

Thank you ouryve - I didn't think that was a x-post - I want to hear experiences of transition to a new school. Glad that your DS1 has made a successful transition.

OneInEight I don't know that I have found the right school for DS. They were quite flexible about taster sessions. Initially DS was meant to be going for a morning. On the day he said it was too much to manage so he just did a tour of the school with another Y7 boy that afternoon. He met the English teacher and he said he would go to just her lesson the next day. In the event he had a panic attack in the car when we got there and couldn't get in. I did take him in to sit in the library with me for 10 mins so at least we had got into the building. The school then suggested he met with a TA first who would then take him to a lesson. (They offered that the TA would accompany him to the lesson but DS didn't want that as he felt it would make him 'stand out'.) By the time we got to the school I only got DS out of the car on the basis he would meet the TA but not go to the lesson. Unfortunately although I said this was the agreement, the TA tried to persuade DS to go into class and he got very agitated that he would be 'forced' to. He went on another short tour of the school with the TA and me but he was cross and muttering under his breath and just wanted to leave.

It is really hard to work out is if it DS's anxiety that he is preventing him getting into school or if the school is unsuitable. DS has decided that there are too many 'badly behaved' children there and thinks the teachers are not in control. It hasn't seemed so to me. DS is hypersensitive to noise, disorder and pupils 'breaking rules'. When we were going round the school with the TA that day DS was encouraged to look in the science lesson - mistake - he insisted that the children were behaving dangerously with the bunsen burners and the teacher wasn't stopping them.... (I didn't see it.)

Another unfortunate thing was that when DS did the tour with the Y7 boy apparently when they went into one class a few of the boys made comments about DS's height (he is very slight) and teased the boy who was showing him round. And the teacher didn't notice - though DS seems to think she should have... So is this a 'bad sign' or just part of inevitable teasing which DS finds it hard to cope with?

And I am also wondering about the school's suitability because it is not an ASD specific school. It doesn't even call itself a 'specialist' school. It is a small mainstream independent secondary which promotes itself as providing 'individualised learning' in small classes (about 12 in a class.)It is not academically selective and does take children with SEN. (about a third of pupils have SEN). Thing is DS, whilst he has SEN himself, seems to be very intolerant of others SEN (for example ADHD) if it results in what he considers 'bad behaviour'. Partly because he hates 'rule breaking' and partly because of his need for calm and structure. Does he need an ASD-specific environment to get the 'right approach' because we obviously can't find a school where there are no pupils with any sort of behavioural difficulties? And DS in any event has his own behavioural difficulties though his form of 'meltdown' is a panic attack.

And OneInEight I am wondering if you are in my area (hopeful for recommendations!) because I know you have found 2 schools for your boys. I know you are far away from me ourvye. I live at the outer edge of a London borough.

[ouryve]

I think 1in8 is in the midlands, pannetone, and yes, I'm way up in t'frozen north!

It does sound like your DS needs a smaller environment. 12 in a class is still a lot of unpredictability and randomness for a child who finds other kids hard to be around.

For comparison, DS1's school is listed as a BESD school, but in reality, rather than the more hardened or feral kids you expect of a typical BESD school, it takes kids who have BESD arising from ASD/AS/ADHD and the anxiety that creates. Classes are very small. DS1's Primary class of 7 is as large as it gets and there are more TAs than teachers. One of the reasons that DS1 couldn't cope with his MS class was a handful of slightly giddy kids and the low level disruption they caused - he was very sensitive to it and would come home from school ranting that all the children were badly behaved. He blew things up very much out of proportion. Even though many of the boys in his school are very much like him and some can lash out and be aggressive, it's managed well and he's never felt it to be a problem, even when a boy had a go at him, when he was brand new there. He feels safe and he feels it is very quiet and calm. He is also becoming more self-aware and realising that he's with others who experience the world in a similar way to him. He's not been making a lot of effort to forge friendships, but he does feel a sort of solidarity.

It's definitely worth having a look at specialist provision. Edubase is good for pulling up a long list, which you can then do your research around. A good local-ish EP or OT, if you have one, will have visited many potential schools, as well, so might be able to advise on the "feeling" in particular schools - some are very gentle and quiet, some more vibrant.

[OneInEight]

Yes, we are midlands so too far for day pupils from London. As ourvye suggests a specialist school may have more experience in helping very anxious pupils like your son. Although, there will be some pupils with challenging behaviour (there has to be a reason why the LEAs pay the huge fees) it seems to be dealt with by the specialist schools in a very calm and efficient manner from what we have seen and the ds's report.

[pannetone]

Thank you again ouryve (and I'd appreciate a bit of t'frozen north currently to esape the heat and humidity) and OneInEight. It is all so difficult - we do have a fairly local ASD specialist school but it does have a reputation for taking pupils with challenging behaviour (and the OFSTED commented that restraint incidents were being correctly recorded). The other big issue is academics. The school only offers a limited range of GCSES _ DS is very able (level 6 at end of primary) and he needs a suitable peer group academically.

I need to look further afield if DS can't 'manage' the small independent (or more accurately they can't manage his needs), but I need a day school as DS wouldn't want to board.

[Pebbles72]

Not sure if this is helpful or geographically possible but your ds sounds much like mine and mine is successfully transferring to an amazing s/s - Swalcliffe Park, Banbury. My ds is just finishing Year. 6, has ASD, is working at Level 7 in Maths and Level 8 in Science and Level 6 in English. He could not manage at mainstream primary school and the LA have provided 25 hours a week home tuition for the last two years, as they could not provide a suitable school placement, hence the high academic levels. He also has an additional social anxiety disorder which causes panic attacks and refusal to leave the house and sometimes his bedroom. He started a very slow transition to Swalcliffe Park, a specialist secondary school, in April and has now built up to three days. He is very happy there and we have seen a real difference in his mood, anxiety and self esteem. He is taught in a class of 4. The boys all have HFA, are academically able, love to learn and are polite, well mannered and well behaved - given the odd meltdown or two!

[OneInEight]

When we were looking at schools for academics we decided that as long as at least one pupil got a good string of GCSE's then it showed the potential and attitude of the school to teach. The overall figures for even independent special schools are dismal if you look on EduBase. It is still a compromise as none offer the range of subjects as mainstream but given ds2 would never have set foot in a mainstream secondary he was never going to get any GCSE's in that setting anyway no matter how bright he is.

[ouryve]

Recording of restraint incidents is something that OFSTED specifically check in all special schools. Our local Academy SS has just gone into special measures and one of the many, many reasons was failure to record all incidents of restraint (as well as lack of training for staff in safe handling and de-escalation techniques, lack of vetting.... you can see why they check this stuff).

[ouryve]

And agreeing about the compromise. Some of the boys at DS1's school go on to university, largely to take STEM subjects and some take vocational subjects, because they're simply more comfortable with the style. 80% of the boys end up doing something that can lead to a career when they finally leave, though, which is remarkable. There's a really strong DT department and the boys win national awards for some of their creations - great for the ones who are quite able, but just can't stand the pressure of 9+ GCSEs and so on.

One of the big things is that some of the boys holding down jobs, including in customer facing roles, started at the school really quite scrappy. This is probably because social skills are woven into the curriculum and are taught by means not involving all sitting in a classroom. They get the boys out of school every single week and they have to do tasks that involve working as a team. And they often get dirty!

[pannetone]

Pebbles it is not near enough for me (DS wouldn't board and it is 2 weekly boarding at that) but Swalcliffe looks a great school. Great to hear that your DS is happy there.

Still concerned about academic levels and choice of GCSE subjects _ DS is bright like his 2 older brothers who got to do 3 sciences at their grammar (which we didn't send DS3 to because we won a disability discrimination case against them over their lack of support for ASD DS2.) DS is also very strong at English which is currently his favourite subject but as a sweeping generalisation English levels are pretty low at specialist ASD schools (as boys tend to do better at maths??)

Internet school is a good option academically but DS needs school as he is socially isolated otherwise, and he needs it for his social development as well.