travelling time secondary OOC indie specialist school?

[billiejeanbob]

does anyone know how far is too far for secondary aged dc to travel to ooc specialist placements?

dd has severe dyslexia and there are not any LA special schools that can meet need within our county.

The school that was initially recomended by indie EP, SLT and OT is so far away that dd would have to board. I dont feel happy with this and have been researching other schools - there is literally none in our county.

I have found a school that is a specialist provison indie placement. however it is 44 miles away and the typical time of the journey there would be about 50 -55 minutes. plus that again on the way home.

does anyone know if this is an acceptable amount of travelling time? would a tribunal be likely to rule against the school for this reason? I know that my LA will play on this at tribunal.

thanks

[stormwarning]

Ds is having to board at an out of county indi school for this very reason. The travelling time would have been over an hour each way and we didn't feel that he would cope with that. I believe that anything more than 45 minutes was considered too long by our LA.I imagine it depends on the child though and whether it was felt that they could cope with all the travelling or not.

[billiejeanbob]

thanks storm.
Im finding it really hard to come to terms with the boarding aspect - although the school is perfect in every way for dds needs im not convinced that the boarding would work for her.
I think the travelling time would be ok for dd - especially on the way home. it would give her time to process the school day and calm down etc.
However I dont have any experience of my dd travelling this distance on a regular basis.
do anyone elses dcs have to travel this far on a daily basis and does it work or is it unrealistic?

[ohnoalfie]

I went to visit an ooc indi secondary school a while back and the school said the maximum they liked the children to travel was an hour. They used a coach service that collected the pupils from a local stop. I think its about the distance, time travelling and time you'd have to leave home.

Lots of children at indi secondary school get on coaches at 7am 7.30am so it's reasonable. You need to look at timings and how you think it would work for you and your child.

[billiejeanbob]

ohnoalfie do you mean an hour each way or an hour in total for the day?

[OneInEight]

ds2 has been managing with 45 min on a good day and more usually 1 hour. He gets taxied on his own so no other stops.

ds1 is unfortunately going to have a bit longer as I think it will take him an hour - will have to see how it goes in September. They do take boarders at his school so if it gets too much we can investigate that.

Both were adamant they wanted different schools and this is also what the professionals suggested but it does mean longer distance for ds1. Luckily, both can read in the car or play computer games without feeling sick like me.

[ohnoalfie]

billie an hour each way. I guess the school had experience of what the children could manage. Do they provide transport or have a coach service? If they do maybe find out what time your dd would need to get on the coach.

[Icimoi]

Official guidance is that the travel time should normally not be more than 45 minutes each way for primary age, and 1 hour 15 minutes for secondary. There is some recognition that sometimes those limits can't be met, especially for special school placements, but it would of course need to be taken into account that if the child gets too tired they won't learn properly anyway.

[billiejeanbob]

fab thank you oneineight and ohnoalfie.
I havent been to the school yet or even spoken to them as didnt want to get my hopes up if the distance was completely a no go. it has been suggested by my indies who have previous experience of it.
I have been worrying about this for months - not being able to find a single suitable school within county or even surrounding counties. now there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel

[billiejeanbob]

thanks icimoi. so the distance would not be too bad then as its 50 minutes.
I can visualise it working - I wouldnt wake dd too early, just leave enough time for dressing and breakfast before she has to leave. Also the journey home I am hoping will actually be beneficial to dd - it would provide her with a time to process the day.

[Icimoi]

I went looking to see if I could find the source for that, and discovered that new guidance was posted only yesterday - www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/331654/Home_to_school_travel_and_transport_statutory_guidance.pdf

However, the journey time provision is still in there, at paragraph 34.

[fairgame]

The official guidance of 45 mins and 1hr 15 mins is only guidance though and not set in stone. DS (9) is going to an indie special school approx 40 miles away and it will take him an hour each way. LA haven't kicked up a fuss about it and are providing a taxi and escort. I've done the journey with DS a few times and he is fine with it. He will be setting off at 8am and getting home around 4pm.

[billiejeanbob]

thank you so much icimoi the link is very useful!

[billiejeanbob]

fair your LA sound fab! I know that I will have to win this school at tribunal.
thinking about it - setting off at 8 and home at 4 is not bad at all.
If we walk to dds local primary we leave at 8.10 anyway, as she refuses to walk etc and we are rarely home before 4. plus the new journey wouldnt involve the walking so we wouldnt have her running off, getting upset etc.

[fairgame]

They're not that fab billieI had to go to tribunal to get the place!
They originally offered a unit on a mainstream and i picked a different indie ss.
They realised a few weeks before the hearing that i would win so offered this indie ss as it was cheaper then the one i wanted. My solicitor advised me to take it, saving them 16k.
It was originally agreed with me, school and LA in March 2013 that DS needs ss and he will be starting in September. It's taken so long to sort it out because of their silly games and delaying tactics.

They have been fair with the transport side of it though. They could have easily said no escort but they haven't as yet. Although they did say they would review it after 3 months but the new school have said in their experience it is unlikely they will remove the escort. Fingers crossed!

[billiejeanbob]

oh sorry to assume that your LA were ok fair. My LA are proposing their ss which caters for mld and besd for dd. She has complex needs but doesnt have behavioural problems or a learning disability and the school doesnt have provisions for GCSEs etc. It's just completely wrong on all levels - they dont have any specialist teachers etc or appropriate peer group.
I am aware that the indie school will cost the LA alot of money - on top of the school fees they will have to buy in additional salt and ot plus then there is the transport fees. the other indie school is about 100 miles away and dd will have to board. they have salt and ot onsite and obviously the transport fees wont be an issue due to the boarding. this option may well work out cheaper for the LA - can they force a child to board due to it being cost effective?

[fairgame]

No i don't think they can force her to board.
Surely boarding would cost more than a day school even with additional transport and therapies?


I was in a similar position where the LA proposed a brand new unit with no peer group, no therapies included and i argued that there was no evidence that it worked as it was so new. I also got a private EP report which stated that DS needed a ss.
They then offered the local ss which is for MLD. DS doesn't have any LD (again EP backed this up) and there was no peer group for him there either. There was no way LA could have argued for one of their options because the school i had picked could meet all DS's needs, where as their schools couldn't. So instead they picked a similar indie ss which is further away but costs less. The one i picked was nearer but in a city centre so although travel distance was less, travel time was the same.

Lack of peer group is a great reason not to go with the LA's offer and is an acceptable reason to appeal to tribunal.

The LA should provide you with costs for their option as part of the tribunal process and you can compare with your option. In my area boarding usually costs around 100k per year where as day schools cost around 50k with 25k transport costs. Even with therapies on top that's still cheaper then boarding.

[bjkmummy]

hi, my son travels about 40 miles a day and it takes 75 minutes - he is in primary as well - he copes fine with it = he has ASD - the issue though as far as my LA is concerned is that it costs £28,500 in transport costs alone!!!! for that reason when it comes to my daughter we will argue boarding school as the costs of travelling are so high but she would be okay to board - she would go as a weekly boarder so would be home every weekend

[billiejeanbob]

the boarding school fees are relatively minimal -approx 30k, although the therapy costs are additional to this and would roughly equate to 50k a year. So for dd to board we are looking at about 80k.

the indie day school also costs around 30k as a day student. Plus then the additional cost of the therapies plus transport, I'm sure would equate to more than 80k.

at the moment we are fighting in tribunal for ms primary with full time 1:1 TA, 1 hour each a week of direct therapy with slt, ot and specialist teacher. plus training for the ta and CT from the slt, ot and specialist teacher to deliver a multi sensory curriculum accross the whole school week. this roughly equates to about 35k a year, but I am fully aware that this doesnt have the potential to work at secondary school level.
we had a hearing in june that secured the full time TA plus specialist teaching and training. the next hearing is in September for the therapies, although the LA dont have any up to date assessments they are disputing the indie reports and are using reports from 2012 that their OT has updated without seeing my dd!