There are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN in our special need webguide here.

Could you give me some advice about IEP please?

(61 Posts)
inthesark Mon 22-Apr-13 18:49:16

The conversation with school went something like this:

Me: You know you said you were looking at giving DD an IEP?

School: Oh, yes, she's got one.

Me: Ummmm, somewhat dumbstruck because I thought that parents were meant to be at least informed when their child got an IEP, if not actually involved in the process. Or have I got that completely wrong?

This is all in the context of a bit of a barney with school, who have a habit of agreeing to do something and then not doing it, so I think they may just have knocked up the IEP in a hurry when they realised it had been forgotten, so I'd quite like to have my facts right before I get back to them...

MareeyaDolores Wed 01-May-13 21:41:00

really love the 5 D model. Am going to memorise it!

moondog Wed 01-May-13 19:22:52

Yes! Nothing better than having your hard work captured and acknowledged.

And I bet the initialler does it with pride that his/her work is demonstrated!?

moondog Wed 01-May-13 19:07:39

Public sector special needs industry drones have perfected the art of report writing. Vague recommendations are made to other vaguely defined drones.

The problem is the recommendations are too vague to be carried out and the drones responsible for carrying out the vague recommendations are never specified either.

One of the (many) marvellous teachers of my acquaintance has highly detailed checklist in her class. not only are each of the individual children's specified tasks to be ticked off daily, the staff member who carried it out is expected to initial it as well.

There is no issue with this whatsoever.
Everyone knows exactly what to do and is happy to sign it off as one of their completed tasks.

I always thought team AROUND the child meant exactly that. How to get AROUND them instead of actually facing them directly and doing something.

And digress.

Our meetings were all about how to not actually talk about ds, but other random things to use up the time epecialy what the parents might 'need' that was not in their budget nor remit to deliver.

LightAFire Wed 01-May-13 14:54:41

deny/diminish/dismiss/deflect/disinterest. That is usually what I get, not hey welcome as a resource and one of the team around the child etc.

I just don't understand why that happens. (I'm hearing it over and over though so I do believe it!) Someone else mentioned that teachers are maybe feeling busy - but for me parents can be a HELP! I had one girl who suffered possible epilepsy and I was quite concerned - when her mum came in to explain her symptoms me I said "Great, I'll get a pen and write this down, thanks". I then typed it up and gave it to the staff so we all knew what to do.

As for IEP's my ds hasn't got one and told all schools do provision mapping now.

My SENCO friend says that Oftsed are going off IEPs, so I guess this is the "new thing".

I have not been involved with any target setting. IEP's seem to be a big white elephant that most schools either don't do or do badly.

Sadly, yes I agree. My best mate is having massive wrangles with her school over her visually impaired child and the lack of support there too - his lack of concentration has been put down to "immaturity" rather than eye strain... hmm

inthesark also sadly familiar. Things seem to be written down and then ignored... Do you have any diagnosis or anything which can back up your DD's need for support? What do the school feel she needs and do you agree? (Even if they are failing to do it!)

inthesark Wed 01-May-13 13:12:25

That's genius. I think you should get funding to study it properly.

Our lot seem to specialise in deflect, when you do get a meeting out of them. Although they mostly seem to specialise in a 6th, dithering, where they talk a lot about something but don't actually make anything happen. grin

Handywoman Tue 30-Apr-13 22:05:32

Ooh supermum98 I LOVE your 5d model!

supermum98 Tue 30-Apr-13 22:02:54

I've even invented my own model 'the 5 D model' try it and see if the defensiveness falls into one of these categories. deny/diminish/dismiss/deflect/disinterest. That is usually what I get, not hey welcome as a resource and one of the team around the child etc. As for IEP's my ds hasn't got one and told all schools do provision mapping now. I have not been involved with any target setting. IEP's seem to be a big white elephant that most schools either don't do or do badly.

supermum98 Tue 30-Apr-13 22:02:25

I've even invented my own model 'the 5 D model' try it and see if the defensiveness falls into one of these categories. deny/diminish/dismiss/deflect/disinterest. That is usually what I get, not hey welcome as a resource and one of the team around the child etc. As for IEP's my ds hasn't got one and told all schools do provision mapping now. I have not been involved with any target setting. IEP's seem to be a big white elephant that most schools either don't do or do badly.

supermum98 Tue 30-Apr-13 22:02:00

I've even invented my own model 'the 5 D model' try it and see if the defensiveness falls into one of these categories. deny/diminish/dismiss/deflect/disinterest. That is usually what I get, not hey welcome as a resource and one of the team around the child etc. As for IEP's my ds hasn't got one and told all schools do provision mapping now. I have not been involved with any target setting. IEP's seem to be a big white elephant that most schools either don't do or do badly.

MareeyaDolores Mon 29-Apr-13 20:54:35

I hope that maybe I have given you a bit more insight into what might be going on in teachers' heads
OP, you have, thank you. Trouble is, SEN dc and their families take up contact-time, planning-time, and thinking-time. And teachers have so many other demands on their time, I would imagine the one over-riding thought on a loop, ''Enough already, leave me alone, please". Fixing that usually means spending more money on salaries, which is not very likely.

even when provision is written into a statement there is no policing of it by anyone independent of the school budget sad

Just because it is written down, there is no guarantee any of it will be adhered to or even read grin True. But we still want one!

MareeyaDolores Mon 29-Apr-13 20:45:39

I don't know why I thought an IEP would make anything better, they're still flailing about, now just with a piece of paper in their hands Rofl. But so true

moondog Mon 29-Apr-13 18:39:23

'even when provision is written into a statement there is no policing of it by anyone independent of the school budget'

This is so true which always leads me to become somewhat dismissive of MNers fighting for statements as I want to shriek 'Just because it is written down, there is no guarantee any of it will be adhered to or even read.'

Then as Star once told me, I remember it's all you've got.

Someone I know tried to circumvent this by insisting (in the statement) that a copy of the statement was stuck to the classroom wall. It was a significant development on rotting in the back of the head's filing cabinet.

inthesark Mon 29-Apr-13 18:33:28

Unfortunately, I win. I say unfortunately because it is the biggest pile of woolly wool that I have had the misfortune to read in a long time. It also has "targets" about social issues that aren't issues (but are there because school are worried that too much time out of the class will make DD unhappy and not fit in).

I would like to write a snarky email back, but am sitting on my hands until I am calmer tomorrow. Sigh. I don't know why I thought an IEP would make anything better, they're still flailing about, now just with a piece of paper in their hands.

handywoman - hope yours is a bit better when it arrives.

LightAFire Mon 29-Apr-13 14:47:00

starlight how awful. It doesn't surprise me to hear it happens, but I'm happy to say I've never seen it personally. And IMHO no child gets a statement due to pushy parents. They get statements due to dire need and parents who have had an almighty battle to get there at all. There are even more who should have them but don't.

inthesark and handy - good luck!

Handywoman Mon 29-Apr-13 14:42:05

I also sent an email to our SENCO with a polite nudge reminding them that I am waiting to see an IEP wink

Let's see who get's theirs first! Ready.... steady... go!

inthesark Mon 29-Apr-13 13:31:12

Thank you for all the help - we are now waiting for both an appointment and a copy of the IEP. I have suggested that they could always send us a hard copy if attachments are so tricky grin. We await further developments...

The CT's judgement was that there were other children who WERE disruptive that needed the TA more than my ds (who only got it because he had pushy parents).

(I don't know this btw, but again, my teacher contacts tell me this is what will probably have happened in the same way that schools use delegated SEN money for vegetable gardens to attract the MCs and benefit ALL the children rather than on resources to support just one). SEN money isn't ringfenced and even when provision is written into a statement there is no policing of it by anyone independent of the school budget.

The school (and the LA for that matter) denied any need. That was it basically. Therefore they used the 1:1 as a class TA and avoided having to meet child-ratio numbers with additional staff.

This isn't uncommon. It happens all the time according to my teacher family and friends, particularly in cases where the child is not disruptive.

Any lack of progress was put down to ds' disability rather than the fact that the TA was never with him.

LightAFire Sun 28-Apr-13 21:05:29

I would take a 1:1 TA to be like that child's personal tutor/educational support. So I'd expect as a teacher to liaise with them while planning, making clear what the class was doing, and work together on sorting tasks for that child as appropriate depending on their need. One of my statemented children had a TA who had been with her throughout school, so she was more or less designing the tasks herself as she knew more than I did and then reporting back to me on how she was getting on. Other children, it's been more me suggesting the tasks - I would vary as necessary, partly depending on the experience and skills of the TA.

And with your DS - good grief! That just sounds insane! What reason did the state schools give for contradicting a statement and saying provision was unacceptable? (Where I've been, a statement was a statement and we'd just get on with implementing it). And how is he getting on at his independent - better I hope?

DS is 6. It's okay for him now as at first opportunity (Annual Review) we appealed again. (This was easy because all of the pointless but expensive provision was suddenly removed from the statement leaving him again with nothing) and ended up with provision that cost twice what we were originally asking for because not only did ds actually need what we said he did, but we'd collected evidence for a whole years worth of failure and regression hmm.

In fact we actually only wanted what we originally did, but state schools found it completely unacceptable which meant independent special school was the only viable option.

I suppose what I meant was what did you think the role of the 1:1 TA iyswim.

LightAFire Sun 28-Apr-13 20:26:14

I've never had a job where I had a permanent TA with me. I've had classroom assistants who pop in and out to do admin, and I've had some TAs who work 1:1 with statemented children. This is just because of the schools I've been in - I have always taught KS2 and my schools haven't had TAs at that age. Shame as it would be great - you could split up groups and do more adult input for all abilities.

And yes teachers often don't like admitting they don't know things, I've noticed that too. Never been sure why - I think some of them worry they will lose authority with the children, so it's a habit they continue with adults?? And yes, I think they are (due to lack of training/experience) all too often out of their depth with SN too. I know when I started out I was for sure. I think it's such a shame that the SENCO role got cut to administrative in state schools - in the independent school I mentioned, our SENCO was full time and actively taught and she was a wonderful resource. In state schools what usually happens is SN children end up with an adult helper doing worksheets, rather than someone actively teaching them.

From what you're saying, maybe it would make more sense if provision could be agreed within schools, perhaps with an LA rep to check it's all fair. How old is your DS now? The whole situation sounds really really hard.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now